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Gray Wolf vs Cougar (Mountain Lion)


          Wolf facts                        Mountain Lion facts

    Up to 5 ft and 180 lbs           Up to 5 ft and 200 lbs

 gray wolf, wolf attacksmountain lion attacks, cougar

This would be a great fight against too apex predators of similiar size. Cougars and Wolves do occupy many of the same habitats and fights occur naturally.

The Gray Wolf is the largest member of canine family.  A Wolf will never back down from a fight and is able to prey animals much larger than itself, including Deer, Elk, and even Moose. Wolves are skilled fighters, attacking each other in order to determine the Alpha male, or leader of the wolf pack.

The Mountain Lion, or Cougar, is one of the most powerful predators on Earth. It also hunts and kills prey that are many times its size, but the cougar can take down a full grown elk with a single powerful charge and a quick bite to the neck.

The Wolf would most likely initiate this fight as it is a deteremined killer and will try to kill and eat anything. The wolf would attempt to bite the neck of the cougar and hang untill its death. The cougar is extremely quick and would be able to dodge the wolf's initial attack. The relentless wolf will continue to press the fight as the cougar tries to escape. At this point the pissed off cougar accepts the wolf's challenge and with its superior strength quickly pins its opponent. The mountain lion clamps down on the throat of the wolf and slashes its midsection with the claws of its hind legs.





Wow, I love Lions and Tigers, they are SO cute! 
Posted @ Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:51 PM by Jim Jones
I actually have a Wolf hybrid and am familiar with Wolf behavior. Wolves will most certainly back down from a fight, and they don't 'attack each other' in determining pack rank. They do have a sequence of behaviors they go through but no real damage generally happens to either animal. Wolves in general are not aggressive except when backed into a corner or on the hunt for food. 
Now with regard to the Mountain Lion, considering they way 300 to 400 lbs and a large wolf tops at 150 to 175, on a one to one it is a no brainer who would win, the cat because the wolf is going to be someplace else. 
The representation of a Wolf as some sort of canid monomaniac is a disservice to all dog owners, not just Wolves and hybrids. 
Get a clue people. 
Posted @ Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:15 PM by J. Choate
I think you missed the point...
Posted @ Monday, December 15, 2008 10:20 AM by Berry
Mountain lions (or as I like to call them: Catamounts) are also incredibly stealthy - pouncing from above using perches in trees or on rock faces. The wolf might not even really know what hit it. Also, that guy above is ridiculous - if he thinks he's getting real biology here then he is totally out of his mind...
Posted @ Monday, December 15, 2008 3:21 PM by UNIT
This is as real as it gets syanco
Posted @ Monday, December 15, 2008 3:48 PM by Al Thomason
It's so real I think I'm going to go get myself checked for tick bites...thats how out in the wild i feel after reading these supremely well-crafted articles.
Posted @ Monday, December 15, 2008 5:15 PM by Justin
You obviously didn't study at all and went off what you assumed.The wolf is not some vicious beast that will attack and eat anything.Wolves will typically avoid a potential prey item which does not conform to what they experienced during their lives. Generally, the greater the discrepancy to what wolves are previously accustomed to, the greater their resistance to exploring it. This is only increased should the new prey act bold, assertive, and fearless, as a mountain lion would.Also the wolf does not go for the throat most of the time, and if it does it doesn't hang on.It mostly goes for the haunches, causing massive bleeding and hopefully slightly crippled the animal.Also, the wolf can go up to 5 mph faster than the cougar, giving it an edge.And the cougar isn't one of the most powerful predators on earth.Cougars can be almost as large as jaguars, but are less muscled and powerful.Plus both of them are ambush predators, the only difference being the wolf chases down the prey while the cougar goes for a quick jump on top of the animal, both of which are about the same odds of catching the prey, for different reasons.Also the wolf is only slightly smaller than the cougar, but still holds a fair advantage.Both of them have a good chance of winning.My thoughts are that everyone assumes the bigger animal would win, which isn't always the case.
Posted @ Sunday, January 18, 2009 6:31 PM by Darkness
Listen dumb ass size does why do you think in boxing ,kickboxing and almost all fighting sports they have weight division`s.
Posted @ Monday, February 02, 2009 3:08 PM by darknessisgay
Size matters you retard!
Posted @ Monday, February 02, 2009 3:13 PM by darknessisgay
Are we having fun yet?
Posted @ Tuesday, February 24, 2009 7:44 AM by Dave
haven't you herd that "its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"? first off theres no way of telling who would win because alot of factors have to be weighed out. like weither one ambushed the other, what was the altitute, who attacked who first. you cant just say of the mountian lion would win cuz u dont kno for sure. the bobcat would most likely attack the wolf cuz of prey. and the wolf would attack the wolf mainly because its being provoked and is fighting for its life. that being said the wolf would have more fight because its fighting for its life. and the mountian lion is fighting to eat. size plays a factor yes but its mainly about who wants it more.
Posted @ Sunday, March 01, 2009 1:53 AM by Craig
yes the wolf would not win but its ancestor will the old wolves were a big a a bear so i want the OLD WOLF BACK SO PWN i love wolves
Posted @ Monday, March 16, 2009 4:22 AM by Davin
The cougar has the weight advantage, can use its arms better to swipe and can pounce almost 20 feet through the air. Wolves are pack animals and one would not do good on its own. An exceptionally large alpha male wolf could only win if it rushes in and gets a fatal bite on the cougars neck, watch the video as an example.
Posted @ Monday, March 16, 2009 9:50 AM by Dude
a cougar is just too much for a wolf
Posted @ Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:29 PM by gianmario
Cougars are cool. But I like bobcats.
Posted @ Sunday, March 22, 2009 12:40 PM by Bobcat
animals are doesn't matter if they are strong..weak or small..they have feelings like us!! we should not try to fight them..fighting is one of the reason why it doesn't have any peace on this i hope we will be friendly to animals!! im just concerned to them..don't be mad at me!! im not sayin anything about your personality or your self!! ^^
Posted @ Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:00 AM by sophie
Cougar would win end of story
Posted @ Saturday, April 11, 2009 10:52 AM by Marbeled Cat
Cougar: stronger, heavier, fiercer, better armed, faster and more agile.
Posted @ Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:33 PM by gianmario
u frekin fuck wit the gray wolf has more jaw power than any cougar and are smaller ther4 there are smarter and faster
Posted @ Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:10 PM by Bay
Mountain lions are solitary hunters, and they exist without a social structure. Wolves, however, are almost always found in a group, or a pack. So, I'd have to say that, on average, the wolf would probably win. Four or five Gray wolves could easily rip a mountain lion apart. Wolves are also quite intelligent as well and they're pretty good with strategy. I mean they have to be in order to communicate with other members of the pack. Wolves rely on non-verbal communication when they hunt, which also makes them really skilled tacticians.
Posted @ Friday, May 08, 2009 8:21 AM by hen
Lol..That's what I was just about to say! you beat me to it hen.
Posted @ Friday, May 15, 2009 8:41 PM by Kenny
well i have a wolf almanac at my house and it said that there was once 7 wolves in pack who killed 3 male full grown grizzley bears.thats kinda cool to me.but i say they both have a 50 50 chance.
Posted @ Sunday, May 17, 2009 9:24 AM by Leah
I can't believe some of the posts that I'm reading. I don't know if I should laugh or cry. The Cougar wins this fight, period. It's not about a cougar vs. a pack of wolves, it's not about the fantasy of a wolf biting a car in half,(man I'm still laughing at that one), it's about the fighting abilities of the two animals. An alpha wolf is big and strong, but a full-grown adult cougar is bigger and stronger. And quicker. And five of his six points are weopons; i.e., claws or jaws.  
The facts don't lie. Don't mess with the Puma!
Posted @ Monday, May 25, 2009 9:08 AM by Jcol
Any member of the cat family,pound for pound cannot be beat. Once watched a local tomcat maul a pitbull when the pit had it cornered and the pit weighed 10 times as much. Just because a cat will sometimes save energy and avoid a fight now and again..let him get hungry or cornered and watch what happens. I love all animals but cats are the most amazing,athletic,graceful and deadly of all.
Posted @ Monday, May 25, 2009 2:55 PM by Hugh
Size doesn't matter, it is how equipped you are to the fight at hand. In certain cases, this may be size, but in others not. I believe that the mountain lion would win because it is more agile and can move the wolf with its powerful paws, unlike the wolf who has no real control. An additional 20 pounds or 5 mph does not give a real advantage unless everyone is fighting with the same weapons.
Posted @ Monday, May 25, 2009 6:28 PM by Waffle
Actually, 20 lbs can make a big difference, moreso if it's 20 lbs of muscle. 
Wolves almost always run thier prey down, attacking from the rear. 
Cougars always go for the throat, and they have to be strong enough to hold thier prey down until death occurs. I pointed out that cats use all for legs and it's jaws, to subdue prey and fight enemies. Most big cats are solitary hunters, and so they usually try to avoid confrontations because of the risk of injury. If they're injured, they can't hunt. If the threat comes from a single source and smaller, the cougar may not back down, especially if food or cubs are involved. 
In any event, the cougar is much stronger than a wolf. 
It is no contest.
Posted @ Monday, May 25, 2009 8:00 PM by Jcol
Jcol has a point, the cougar would in fact kill a lone wolf, because he is superior in strength and agility, I doubt that a lone wolf would even want to mess around with a cougar. The Largest Cougar weighed probably 260 lbs, the largest wolf weighed only 175 lbs, The cat would own the dog this time!!
Posted @ Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:08 PM by Kenny
The cougar wouldnt win everytime.and i video will not prove that.the cougar is more flexible because it can climb.if the wolf could climb it would flexible too .but since the wolf lives in packs it does not need to climb because it uses speed when it attcks prey from the rear or neck.u cant just say the cougar will win everytime.because they both r strong,fast,smart predators.
Posted @ Sunday, June 07, 2009 7:03 PM by Leah
I agree with J. Choate it's just not a fair fight, basically you have a wild very heavy muscular cat vs a simple dog. in boxing this is like a paper weight going against super heavy weight.. it's total bull! get into the right weight classes people!
Posted @ Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:44 AM by LD 340
Cougars would rip the wolf's fucking face off, you jackasses.
Posted @ Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:11 AM by Gianmario
ahhh my fav one yet closest in wieght. the cougar is my fav animal. but i say it wins not cause of this. more weapons stronger, faster, more agile and the ability to grab with its front legs and bite and kick away with its back legs and claws lol try roughing up a house cat and watch this in action. imagine a 200 lbs cat doing that with much larger claws.... the wolf is an amazing and beautyfull animal but it hasnt a chance realy ... mayb the wolf an cougar should team up an kick that grizlys arse.. bear seems to b the most dangerus land animal on this site mayb if the web dude puts up inland tiapan vs grizzly bear my money is on the snake a drop of venom can kill 2 full grown bull elephants
Posted @ Saturday, July 04, 2009 6:20 AM by billy bob joe
Is this question a joke? A wolf would be totally annihilated by a mountain lion. Not even a close fight. And in response to the first post, a wolf most certainly will back down. They are more pack fighters, and alone they will run off if need be. This would more than likely be a 10 second, or less, fight.
Posted @ Monday, July 06, 2009 12:52 PM by William
The mountain lion is stronger and more agile. Plus, unlike the wolf it has more weapons. It's paws and hind legs are more dangerous than its bite. 
Mountain lion wins this one.
Posted @ Friday, July 10, 2009 1:48 PM by Anduin
lone wolves r most of the time omegas..(weakest in pack) 
omega wolves we be kicked out of a pack sometimes.when this occurs it is now on its own.. 
so a lone wolf(omega) vs cougar wont be a fair fight due to the weakness of the wolf.alpha male wolf vs male cougar could come either way. 
u cant just predict what will happen Jcol...
Posted @ Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:45 PM by leah
Once again leah, the premise was not, "biggest, strongest Cougar, vs 
weakest wolf they could find.", It was "Grey Wolf vs. Cougar". 
You're looking for excuses. 
Cougar wins.
Posted @ Wednesday, July 22, 2009 5:59 AM by jcol
im saying if a wolf and a cougar really met in the wild then it would most likely be an omega wolf. 
this was a set up. 
i dont even know hold old this video is.... 
one video cant prove anything. 
anything can happen in the wild. 
Posted @ Wednesday, July 22, 2009 9:09 AM by leah
Haha-someone posted on here that the cougar weighs 400 lbs-thats the weight of a male african lion!! Cougars are 180-220 lbs! I think whoever gets the first big bite would win-probably the cougar, but nature's funny sometimes- a warthog has killed an african lion before and a zebra bit a lion on the throat in a river standing over the lion almost drowning it, so who can say?
Posted @ Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:56 PM by Attila
a Mt. lion could probuly take the wolf down unless the wolf was a male. 
it would be sort of close though. But id have to go for the Mountain lion.
Posted @ Monday, August 10, 2009 2:48 PM by Savannah the Animal Expert
who ever said a cougar is only 5mph faster isnt correct there the cougar is the second fastest cat and the fastest with retrable claws its alot more quicker then the wolf. only advantage the wolf has is its incredible stanima but the cougar can also jump 35ft and is insainly agile for an animal its size its going to have the wolf easy be it alfo or omega it dosent matter any cougar exept for cubs,injured or almost starved to death will maul a single wolf any day of the week unless it gets a lucky bite or slips over and breaks it own neck.seriously the wolf could dry growling and snarling at the cougar and try and intimedate it but these are ment to b fights to the death or at least thats what i understand from this site. the cougar would snarl right back at it and them buggers sound demonic
Posted @ Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:35 AM by billy bob joe
its a one on one fight ppl not wolves vs not super white fang vs.its wolf vs cougar the cougar is far more stronger, faster, and agile plus it kills its own prey by itself this isnt really a match its a white wash
Posted @ Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:53 AM by billy bob joe
now listen up a couger 94.7% of the time it goes for where the neck and back meat. 5% of the time it atacks from behind anf tackles digging its claws in to its victoms side. and 0.3%of the time it goes for the throte. 
the couager is faster and weighs more but the wolf is longer, smarter, better senses, and stronger, and 99% of the time atacks the throat. 1% the the upper neck. the couger's bute has the strangth to crush a bike. and the wolf's is enough to crush a ford f350. although the couger may be stelthyer the wolf would seance it comeing and be ready..................clearly giveing the wolf the winning advantige
Posted @ Friday, August 21, 2009 3:25 PM by billybobjo
ignore that pretender billybobjo lol what a fool cougars win.dont b jealous cause my name is uber cool and ur name is lame like kenny or some shit
Posted @ Monday, August 24, 2009 5:04 AM by billy bob joe
also cats go for the neck, wolfs attack by attacking the legs or tails and hold it wile the other pack members get there and help hold it down..they dont even nessersarly kill it some times they just start eating wile the animal is still alive ive seen african hunting dogs do this on a doco least the cougar is humane with his prey lol.. u showed ur brain skills and copying me was just childish
Posted @ Monday, August 24, 2009 5:38 AM by billy bob joe
a lone wolf will attack the babies 
and a pack will attack the sick or wounded. 
cougars attack anything or they would scavenge(same with wolves) 
but argueing over this is a waist of time because anything can happen in the wild.get a life people!
Posted @ Monday, August 24, 2009 4:38 PM by leah
Motherfucker! I wouldn't want to be named "billy bob joe", I like my name, my mother gave it to me! 
And Billy Bob Joe, I'll kill you! I'm not scared of nobody, be sure to tell Frankie that too! I could kill your gay ass 6ft6 brother as well, he must've been somebody's bitch in jail huh? 
If you're gonna try to lie to me over the internet about how "badass" you are, you don't have a life, it's not worth arguing with you, and you referring to me as a "kid going through hormonal changes" made me laugh, because that is something a "kid going through hormonal changes" would say! lol. 
You're really a 12 year old illiterate kid lying his ass off on the damn computer, you worthless little punk, get off and go play with your friends! 
I know i'm talking shit, but so are you! We're about even on the talking shit.
Posted @ Monday, August 24, 2009 5:29 PM by Kenny
wolf should win.According to animal face off the wolf was eating.I say if the wolf will eat 
it will pay no attention towards the cougar untill it starts running.But the intelligent wolf will wait untill the cougar comes quite close and the wolf will roll towards cougar's legs and the cougar will fall.As the wolf will do it by it's will it will get up in no time and the cougar falling accidently wold take a bit more time but the wolf in a swift,powerful and fast bite of 1000lbs of force in the windpipe would tear it.And the cougar would die as wolf gaining victory.
Posted @ Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:40 AM by Arpan sharma
I think that weight doesn't matter either. Smaller and lighter things can have the advantage over bigger things. Now speed: Okay the cougar is faster and more agile, but that doesn't always mean it wins. Yes, it has more dangerous weapons on its side, but wolves are dangerous too. We aren't talking about little Yorkies here. Wolves are very intelligent creatures and can learn fast. I doubt that a lone wolf would even challenge a cougar in the first place, and if it was challeged it would probably back down. Animals know when they can't win. They both could possibly just ignore each other completely. Animals don't just attack because they see another animal. If they fought, I'd give the win to the cougar but you never know. (P.S. Wolves don't try to attack and kill anything they can! >:[)
Posted @ Monday, September 14, 2009 5:24 PM by Dark_Wolfxoxo
a wolf will too back down from a fight. and size does NOT matter at all. thats how wolves kill moose. a wolf would easily take down a cougar one on one. big male wolves can weigh over 200 pounds. cougars are the ones that back down. the wolf is stronger, faster, and a more skilled hunter and fighter. more cougars have been killed by wolves than wolves by cougars one on one. wolves have one of the most powerful bite forces in the animal kingdom. wolves pone.
Posted @ Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:55 PM by bob
Look, Bob....a full-grown Cougar is larger, stronger and quicker than a full-grown Wolf. The Cougar is a more skilled hunter because it is a lone hunter. It hunts by stealth. The wolf basically runs it's prey to ground with the help of the wolf-pack, it can also hunt solo, but will rarely tackle anything big by itself. Cougars are fierce fighting machines. They are designed for fighting. Because they are lone hunters, they have to have great strength to catch and hold prey while they go for the killing bite at the throat. Any Wolf that takes on a cougar is in for a very bad day. Exactly where did you get your facts about wolves killing Cougars, one on one?
Posted @ Wednesday, October 07, 2009 6:26 PM by jcol
lol kenny u get retarded as the seconds go by obviously u never been to jail it isnt like that sorry to spoil ur gay love fantisys and as far as u beating me in a fight that is insainly laughable u stupid lil anal licker u wanna fight me get off the nett and come to my house u stupid cowardly cunt 
Posted @ Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:01 PM by billy bob joe
and ur the one who talks shit i have grading certificates to prove my training u stupid shit. i have proof that id wipe the floor with u. and as far as making acusations that im a 12 y o kid well then ur obviously running out of material that could b deemed offencive, go take a nap u need it 
Posted @ Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:05 PM by billy bob joe
At first some comparison.Cougars are 
stronger ,faster and larger + it has powerful scratch.Wolf has more stamina, inteligence, and powerful bites + it is an experienced fighter.As I know wolf will not attack directly. It will tire the cougar and ingure badly .Then the foolish cougar will die by wolf's bite.
Posted @ Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:32 AM by arpan sharma
A grey wolf will tear a couger into bits and pieces
Posted @ Wednesday, October 28, 2009 2:07 AM by Jojo
A grey wolf will tear a cougar into bits and pieces
Posted @ Wednesday, October 28, 2009 2:08 AM by Jojo
It all depends on the circumstances cougars are agile and have sharp claws and are slightly on average heavier then Timber Woves. Now Timber Wolves have incredible biting force around 1000lbs per sq inch, people think Cougars have more speed they are wrong, Timbers can run at a speed of 45 mph and keep that speed locked on for literaly hours, now thats great stamina. Cougars are stealthy ambush predators, they wont even try to attack a Wolf head on unless its cornered. Somebody mentioned that Lone wolfs are almost always omega wolfs which makes them the weakest wolf in the pack is absolutly correct. So if a cougar fights one on one with a lone wolf it will tear it apart assuming the lone wolf even trys to fight it. Now the Alpha male wolf would give the Cougar a great match but it could go either way. Remember that the Wolfs thick fur and hide would not cause as much damage to a wolf as most people think. But the cougar is a vicious beast when its cornered, to me its a draw. Now a Grizly bear would whoop both of them apart! I bet you guys didnt know that bears are closely related to canines, they both come from the evolutionary tree. The better match would be Grizly versus Tiger or Lion, they both can fight with their claws. I Think grizzly wins, just like the timber wolf the grizly has very thick fur and hide even thicker then the wolfs. Who would win? Anybody?
Posted @ Wednesday, November 04, 2009 7:22 PM by ARR
I'll try this one more time; 
Cougars are STRONGER, and QUICKER than any Wolf, Timber, Gray or even Big, Bad. (that's a joke...) 
A cougar can and will attack prey that a lone wolf would never even think about attacking, unless it was desperate. And let's put something else to rest too, and that's the notion that there's a lot of fighting in wolf packs to determine the alpha-male. This is FALSE. The fact is, there is very little actual fighting within a pack. There IS a lot of signals, and postering, all of which is designed to AVOID fighting. Fighting will sometimes occur during mating season, or when territories are invaded, sometimes when it's meal-time, but there's hardly ever any real deadly fighting done within the pack. 
Cougars, as lone hunters, will try to avoid a confrontation if it can. Any injury can be a serious injury, it has no "pack" to depend on. But Cougars are aggresive when it comes to protecting cubs, a kill or territory. A big male cougar will almost always defeat and/or kill a big male wolf.
Posted @ Wednesday, November 04, 2009 8:03 PM by jcol
Here's my input I work on a National Preserved Forest in Alaska, On a routine observation run, I came upon a dead cougar that had been dead approximately 3 days, I then took it back to one of the observatories and called a wildlife biologist friend of mine to examine the specimen, needless to say the cause of death according to the bite mark on the upper neck was conclusively caused by a wolf. Now I was not present during this cougar/wolf confrontation so I don't know whether or not the wolf was alone or accompanied by a pack but there was only one bite that caused its demise thats all it took, so in my expert opinion I know the wolf is quite capable of killing such a ferocius beast. Now on the flipside I also have found dead wolves at the paws of grizzly and cougars. In the wild anything is possible, like ARR said it depends on the circumstances. I have know preference of beast whatsoever I love all animals equally, so I can come from an unbiased point of view unlike some of the people on this forum.
Posted @ Wednesday, November 04, 2009 8:57 PM by RangerJohn
at first some comparison. 
cougars:stronger,faster,larger and dangerous scratches. 
wolf:more stamina,more intelligent, 
more powerful bites and has fighting experience. 
as all know injured animals cannot hunt, so cougar will be afraid at first as wolves chase them.according to these theories,wolf biting cougar will make it injured and if puma cannot hunt, it has no chance of bringing down an alpha male.
Posted @ Friday, November 06, 2009 10:27 AM by arpan sharma
arpan, this is really not a difficult concept. It's about a straight-up, one-on-one fight between a cougar and a wolf. Lock the two of them in a room or a cage, and let them have at it. 
Break it down; 
Agility: Cougar 
Quickness: Cougar 
Strength,power: Cougar 
Weopens: Cougar 
Stamina: Wolf 
Intelligence: If, as some say, the Wolf is more intelligent, and I have my doubts about that, but if the Wolf is indeed more intelligent, then it should be able to figure out that it should get the hell outa dodge, and NOT mess with a big, angry cat. 
Posted @ Friday, November 06, 2009 4:15 PM by jcol
ok this is all jacked up. Most cougars weigh between 130 and 200 with a really big one at 220. Wolves are so rarely hunted that the records are bull. by this I mean if I found as new species and shot 3, what are the chances that the biggest one is the world record wolf? There are two "subspecies" of gray wolf. One is the pack type wolf weighing between 120 and 180 pounds. Then there are the alaskan and canadian wolves weighing between 150 and 225+ pounds guess why the smaler ones are in packs? because they are smaller! Teddy Rossevelt even knew about pack and single wolves because he hunted them and had great respect for them. A wolf(the big type) can break a deer(or cougars) back bone with it muscular arms. its bite force is double that of the cougar and the run the same speed. If a wolf can kill a wolverine, then it can surely defend itself against a cougar.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:27 PM by kenneth
Man, this just keeps getting better and better. Now we have two "types" of Gray Wolf, the smaller "pack" wolf and the larger Alaskan and/or Canadian Wolf. (I guess they don't need no stinkin' packs because they're larger, right?) 
Apparently, these larger Wolves have something the smaller pack wolf doesn't have; powerfull, MUSCULAR" arms!!! 
Arms? Yes, that's right, ARMS! Big, powerfull arms that can break the back of a deer OR a Cougar. 
It's a fighting technique rarely used in the Animal kingdom, I believe it's called the "HULK SMASH" manuever, so named after the Incredible Hulk. 
You people are cracking me up. Look, why not just accept reality; 
A big male Cougar, on average bigger, stronger, quicker and just down-right meaner, than a big male gray wolf, will beat and more than likely kill, the Wolf, in a one-on-one, straight-up fight. 
Even if the Wolf has big muscular arms.
Posted @ Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:21 AM by jcol
Yes. Wolves are in fact much more intelligent than cougars. Wolves have to be intelligent in order to survive within the pack. In other words, canines are well aware of the dynamics that exist within the pack structure. They also utilize these dynamics while they're hunting. 
Wolves are more than capable of planning, reason, and varying degrees of social comprehension.  
This, coupled with incredible amounts of stamina, makes for a very formidable opponent.  
I'm honestly not too sure what you're attempting to prove Mr. jcol. (We've seen almost every single rebuttal that you've made concerning the cougar vs. wolf dilemma). 
And yes. Some of us do agree that one on one, the cougar would probably win against the lone wolf. 
But the fact of matter is that wolves are almost always found within a pack, and that pack would be a force to be reckoned with against the solitary cougar. 
"You people are cracking me up. Look, why not just accept reality;" 
It's funny that you should mention that, because the reality of this situation is that Gray wolves are, 99.9% of the time, found within a social hierarchy. 
But wolves are smart animals, so they would probably back down from the fight before it turned fatal.
Posted @ Friday, November 13, 2009 8:51 AM by yoda
Look Yoda, I fully understand that wolves are usually found in packs, we all know this, but please try to understand the PREMISE of the EXERCISE, which is simply; which animal comes out on top in a ONE-ON-ONE situation! 
It's NOT Cougar vs. pack of wolves, that would be insane. A lone Cougar would not stand a chance against a pack of Wolves, almost no animal would. A lone Wolf, however, going up against a lone Cougar, will almost always lose. That's all I'm saying. 
And I have questions as to just how intelligent a wolf really is. It doesn't take much to understand the hierarchy in a wolf pack. The Alpha male is usually the biggest and strongest, his mate is the top bitch. These two are usually the oldest, as well, but not always. There is no known strategy that Wolves use to hunt prey; the method is to chase it until it tires. Like most predators they'll go for the old, young or sick, before they tackle a healthy animal. 
Cougars, on the other hand, are stealth hunters. There's a lot that has to happen for these types of hunters in order to catch thier prey. Aside from being up wind, they also have to judge distance. They're quick, but a long chase is not in thier favour. And they can't cut out a target from the heard, they have to jump on whatever they can, because they fail more times than they succeed. 
Cougars, as lone hunters, are pretty intelligent in thier own right.
Posted @ Friday, November 13, 2009 4:11 PM by jcol
"And I have questions as to just how intelligent a wolf really is. It doesn't take much to understand the hierarchy in a wolf pack." 
That seems like a rather presumptuous statement concerning the reasoning ability of canines. 
First of all, wolves are acutely aware of the subtle nuances that exist within other members of the pack, therefore, one can safely say that wolves display an innate understanding of body language and social comprehension, i.e., they can sense the emotions of other pack members. Mountain lions cannot; they have no need to. 
Wolves also exhibit an incredible amount of strategy when hunting. 
The alpha-male is the one who initiates and organizes the hunts, and the other pack members work in unison to take down prey that are much larger than themselves. There's definitely a noticeable degree of planning that's involved when wolves hunt. Is that not an aspect of intelligence? 
And yes, you're right about mountain lions relying on stealth. They're quick and efficient when it comes to taking down prey. 
But mountain lions rely mostly on the element of surprise, which makes them bad at long distance hunts. 
All in all, though, they're both unique animals which possess amazing characteristics, and I'm pleased to see that you have so much fervent interest towards the cougar. 
Posted @ Friday, November 13, 2009 11:18 PM by duey
duey, it can be argued that the "innate understanding" exhibited by Wolves of pack hiearchy is due more from behavior instinct than from intelligence. Pups learn from a very young age how a pack works, I.E., body language and social comprehension. 
As for hunting strategy, for wolves, there is none, period.  
They lay no ambushes like lions and some higher primates do, they simply run thier prey to ground. The alpha male does decide when to hunt, but it's simply a matter of finding prey. There is no planning, other than singling out the young, old or sick, but all predators who work in unison do that. 
I have a great appreciation for both Cougars and Wolves, but let's take this for what it is, a one-on-one match between two top predators of North America. 
The Cougar wins. 
Posted @ Saturday, November 14, 2009 6:30 AM by jcol
"As for hunting strategy, for wolves, there is none, period." 
I'm afraid you're wrong on this one, and I'll show you an excerpt that proves it. 
"When wolves hunt, their behavior indicates that a great deal of forethought and problem solving ability is involved. For example, they use social cooperation to conduct and perhaps “plan” coordinated attacks. When running into a herd of prey, they continuously test the animals and make decisions on which single animal they eventually will kill. They test them by smell, scattering the herd and looking for weaknesses, and sometimes by waiting. After scattering a herd, wolves may stand and watch their prey, waiting for a weak individual to reveal itself. Once a lone animal is selected, the wolves may chase it only so far. 
During this pursuit, the wolves must decide to either continue their attack or call if off. Their decision is based on many factors. Does the animal turn and fight? Is there an apparent weakness such as injury or illness? They must also judge the degree of danger involved. Is there risk of injury? Is it worth the risk? A hungry wolf may decide that it is. A wolf’s life, however, is a hard one. Food is not always available and perhaps great risks are taken often to obtain it. Apparently, these are calculated risks. Unnecessary confrontations are usually avoided. An injury in the wild can be the same as death - it just takes longer. Wolves, therefore, need to be good problem solvers and have the ability to anticipate many dangerous situations."  
Another excerpt reports similar findings. 
"Wolves don’t hunt with just gut instinct; they do have strategies when hunting. One is to be walking in a single file line towards the prey. Then, have the majority of the wolves' drops down in the grass and the others go on ahead. The others will go and chase the prey back to the others and they will jump up at it, grabbing its flanks and throat in their powerful jaws." 
Courtesy of
Posted @ Saturday, November 14, 2009 3:29 PM by duey
Sorry duey, but that article seems to say that the pack will select the weakest target, which is usually the very young, very old or sick, and that was MY point. I can find no documentated hunt by a wolf pack that demonstrated any strategic undertaking. I can find no recorded instance of a wolf pack laying an ambush for prey. It's not intelligence that calls a pack off the chase so much as it is instinct and experience. It is simply too risky sometimes for the pack to take on strong, healthy prey that can fight back. This is something that almost all predators know and understand. I will say that they have learned that walking single file has two functions; it does disguise the size of the pack, and in the winter season, in deep snow, it makes it easier for the trailing wolves to travel, keeping them fresher during a chase. I couldn't find the website that was your source, I'd love to find it and read up on it. Are you sure it was
Posted @ Saturday, November 14, 2009 6:21 PM by jcol 
Go to Google, and copy and paste what I've just typed above and you shall find it, my friend.  
And the other excerpt is from a different website. Here's the link. 
Both sources explicitly state how intelligent wolves can be, and once you read them, you'll probably agree. 
All you have to do is copy the links that I've just posted and you'll be able to see what I'm talking about. 
Here's another quotes from that same website: 
"Wolves are VERY intelligent. How intelligent is very? Intelligent enough to open gates and to use symbols. Intelligent enough to have set up their own means of communication and create and re-create a hierarchy for their pack.  
"Gordon K. Smith, who had a wolf pack in captivity, sometimes observed the wolves attempting to open a gate. Sometimes, they are quite successful. This man believes that the eastern timber wolf does this the best. He believes that some wolves are more mechanically inclined than others. Also, the eastern timber wolf shows emotions more clearly than other wolves. It butters other pack members up to get it's way, and shows depression when it doesn't. It expresses great joy and happiness clearly." 
Posted @ Saturday, November 14, 2009 10:11 PM by due
Ok, I found the site. It really doesn't tell me much more than you've already pasted. As I'm sure you know, those predator animals that don't operate on behavior instinct, learn most of what they know as pups, watching thier adult parents. They learn to recognize prey (and which animals to avoid), they learn pack hierarchy and how to hunt. Same as Cougars.  
Opening a gate is not normal behavior, and at some point, the animal in question must have observed the gate being opened. In the wild, animals either go around, over or under an obstacle. Does opening a gate prove intelligence, I'd say yes, but a lot of animals can learn to do this, even cats.  
I'm not saying wolves aren't intelligent, but I'm not willing to say they are more intelligent than a Cougar. 
But for the sake of argument, lets say the Wolf IS more intelligent than than the Cougar. Exactly how do you think this is going to be of help in a one-on-one fight with a Cougar? Exactly what can the Wolf do against a bigger, stronger, quicker advesary that has more weopens to bear?
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:31 AM by jcol
Well, hypothetically speaking, I suppose the wolf could very easily lead the mountain lion on, by tiring the cat out with its high amount of endurance and stamina. Wolves have been known to chase their prey for miles on end.  
If a cougar ever tried to do that, it would fail. But this is beside the point, my friend.  
I'm not saying that wolf intelligence would have anything to do with its ability to compete one-on-one with a mountain lion. Because the mountain lion is, like you said, better equipped for a one-on-one battle. 
I was only trying to prove a point: when you doubted how intelligent these animals can be. 
"Intelligence: If, as some say, the Wolf is more intelligent, and I have my doubts about that," 
"And I have questions as to just how intelligent a wolf really is." 
According to various recorded incidents that have occurred throughout history (I've showed you the links), it's very clear to anyone who has seen the evidence and done the research that wolves, indeed, have very powerful minds. 
And I'm sure that mountain lions are quite intelligent, too, but the thing that's so fascinating about wolves, is their similarity to human beings; in the sense that they can bond, and intuitively sense emotions from fellow members of the pack, much like we can with our friends and family.
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:52 AM by duey
c'mon duey. You can find that same similarity among a lot of animals that work in packs or prides. 
Wild dogs, hyenas (sp) and Lions just to name a few. This dynamic has to exist among animals that hunt and live together or else chaos would happen.  
Look, there is no "tiring" a cougar out in a fight to the death. 
The wolf is not going to employ the "rope-a-dope" tactic, it's either fight or flight, and if it's fight, it won't take long for the wolf to realize it made the wrong choice, it's gonna die long before the cougar gets tired. 
As for the intelligence of the wolf, I stand by my statement. Most of what you're saying is just instinct and behavior that is learned as pups watching adults. But I will say that a wolf IS intelligent and leave it at that.
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:44 PM by jcol
I don't care what you say jcol. It is obvious that you are a biased cougar fanboy. I know the cougar is a more formidable predator, but if a large timber wolf gets its jaws around the cougars neck, its bye bye for the cougar. That's something you cant argue. I know your rebuttal will be "if" the wolf gets its jaws on its neck, but neither you or I have ever witnessed first hand a one on one fight between cougar and wolf, so all or our arguments are just worthless.
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:47 PM by arr
Mr. jcol, I was speaking from a hypothetical standpoint, and I'm surprised that you would actually take that to heart. In other words, anything could happen if these two animals went at it. 
There are no absolute outcomes because that's not how things work within nature; things are always subject to change. Nature is all about change. 
I also don't feel the need to reiterate what I've stated from my previous posts, because I feel that I've already proven my point by showing you the evidence of the wolves' cognitive abilities, which you so arrogantly dismissed in your earlier posts. 
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:21 PM by due
Well first of all I would like to mention that I am a wildlife biologist and I have observed North American Apex predators for over 15 years. I have seen numerous confrontations with wolves and cougars, and I have never witnessed a cougar even try to attempt to take on a wolf whether its one on one or in a pack. This is easily explained that Cougars are solitary hunters that rely on their hunting abilities to survive. Therefore they are very intelligent creatures, they know that if they risk themselves to injury against wolf or wolves they will die a slow death of starvation, thus making them very reluctant. Wolves on the other hand are known for feeding other members of the pack if they are injured or sick. The cougar does not have that luxury. The only time that a cougar would challenge a wolf one on one is if it is cornered. In that case a cougar is a force to be reckoned with. Now wolves aren't poodles they are also very strong and fierce unlike cougars wolves actually have experience in combat due to conflicts within the pack or from other rival packs. All predators even cougars target the young and weak, just because they do does not make them lesser of an predator, they do this to survive its called natural selection or survival of the fittest. They also target the young or weak to have an advantage over prey that is usually much larger then themselves. Arr is absolutely right that if a wolf locks its jaws around a cougars neck, the cougar will most certainly die, (1,000 lbs psi jaw strength) but if it doesn't the cougar can and will most likely kill it. For the most part that scenario is highly unlikely due to the fact that these predators frequently avoid each other, not to mention wolves are a social predator and almost always are in packs, therefore a cougar would not stand a chance. Now on intelligence both of these animals are very intelligent, but what separates wolves is their social structure very similar to ours, it is not uncommon that alpha wolves keep their mates and live by them for life. The mother usually stays in the den with her cubs while the father and the rest of the pack hunt, and they come back to feed them. When the mother wolf wants alone time the other female wolves will watch over her young, these are just a few prime examples of the wolves social structure and their similarities with humans. They are both very beautiful animals and should be appreciated and conserved.
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:43 PM by jimmy81
arr, duey, I don't know if you guys are being deliberatly obtuse, or if you're truely ignorant. I am not going by hypotheticals, nor am I ignoring the fact that indeed, anything can happen during a fight between these two predators. 
Hypothetically speaking, if the Wolf could pull a knife on the Cougar, that would improve his chances, wouldn't it? 
Arr, quit being a wuss and place your bet, kid. Pick a winner and back it up with whatever fact you can find, otherwise you bring nothing to the table, and you're just wasting space. If you think the Wolf's best chance is that "anything can happen", then odds are it's going to be a bad day for the Wolf. 
Duey, I'm surprised that you didn't recognize a bit of sarcasm on my part. Yeah, I know all about nature and how unpredictable it is, but in the animal kingdom, instinct and behavior usually determines how animals act and react, in any given situation. 
With all that said, I agree that wolves are intelligent, I'm just not prepared to say they're any more intelligent than Cougars. 
So it all comes down to this; 
with everything being equal, I ask both of you, make your choice; 
Cougar or Wolf? 
One-on-one, who wins? 
No ifs, no knife, no help from a pack, just two top predators going at it.  
I say Cougar.
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:55 PM by jcol
Like any given sunday any team can win, the cougar is New England, the wolf are the New York Giants, I picked the Giants in the upset and I pick the under dog wolf in the upset over the cougar.
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:44 PM by ARR
Talking about ignorant, your comment about if a wolf pulls a knife on a cougar just shows that you are the ignornat one. Every thing we are commenting is purely hypotheticals, its not like you had first row tickets at a cougar v wolf match at the MGM. Get real Jcol and just accept that you love cougars and in your opinion you think that the cougar would demolish a wolf every single time. Now in my opinion both creatures are formidable and both have the potential to tear each other up. Its not like we are comparing elephant versus ants. We are comparing two large fierce predators.
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:55 PM by ARR
My money is on the Wolf. I come from Canada and where im from there is a underground following of people who like to fight wild animals, I have seen first hand Wolves killing cougars so I have no doubt about it. But cougars have won to. They are equally matched. I know cougars have retractable claws and we think that gives them a great advantage and sometimes it does. But the inability of wolves being able to use its claws is also the wolves advantage because they have no other choice but to go straight for the neck and locking their jaws and breaking its neck, while the feline demonstrates domestic cat attributes of trying to toy around with its opponent with its claws. Most fights are pretty quick and straight to the point with wolves killing the cougar, but if the fight lasts more then 30 seconds that probably indicates the cougar wins because the wolf was not successful in lunging for the neck.
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 9:24 PM by MarkyMark
Good golly, ARR. The remark about the Wolf pulling a knife on the Cougar was a JOKE. 
You can't be this dense. I was being sarcastic. 
Actually, if the Wolf was really intelligent, it'd pull a .44 mag, or something like that. 
My contention is that A Cougar beats a Wolf. If they fought ten times, I would never say that the Cougar wins ten times. As you say, "anything can happen". 
But the premise is ONE fight, between these two predators. Let's not muddy the waters with talk about behavior, instinct, intelligence, packs or anything else other than it comes down to the point where one animal decides to attack the other, for whatever reason you want to pick. 
ONE single fight, one night only. Put it on pay-per-view if ya want. 
If you had to bet your LIFE, on this one single battle, would you still take the Wolf? 
If you're being realistic, I say no. If you have some kinda weird attraction, man on dog kinda thing, then go with the Wolf. 
All I'm saying is this; 
the odds are that the Cougar wins the fight. 
That's ALL i'm saying. 
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:03 PM by jcol
What about your weird attraction to cougars it seems like you think that the cougars shit doesn't stink (thats a sarcastic joke by the way). This a opinionated debate not a wager on peoples lives. But if I were to bet I already said that my money is on the wolf whether I am wrong or right. Its just my opinion. I dont know whether or not marky is telling the truth, but it actually makes sense, wolves have no choice but to go for the neck since they dont have diamond encrusted claws that your beloved cougar has. Im just saying if the wolf goes for the neck and is successful it would kill it. Jimmy81 is a wildlife biologist and he said that wolves jaws can exert force of 1000 lbs a sq inch , i did some research and indeed I have read claims of 750, 900, even more. So if the wolf does clamp on the neck it would kill the cougar cold. I am a mechanic and if I were to put 1000 lbs of pressure on your skull in a vice it would crush it. Now think about a wolf on a cougars soft neck. Even the stupid short you tube video shows a wolf going straight for the neck, now it looks like it wasnt successful but thats just one encounter and one video, what about other times when the wolf was successful. Jcol you are just in denial. I on the other hand admit that the cougar has potential to kill a full grown alpha wolf, but you wont give a punchers chance to the wolf of having the potential of killing a cougar. That just show you are very biased, that just makes you lose credibility.
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:28 PM by ARR
Hell, this is like talking to my 2yr old. You're just not getting it, are ya? 
I agree that anything can happen, yeah, the Wolf might get lucky and could actually win. I'm saying that that the odds are with the Cougar. Surely, you can admit to that. You say I don't have credibility, that's fine. I won't lose any sleep over that. I'm not really sure you have a clue as to the dynamics of what a fight between the two would actually entail. Although no one can predict how the fight would evolve, I think I can safely say that the Cougar is just not gonna leave himself open for the Wolf to stroll right in and chomp on his neck. The Cat is just too quick for that. While the Wolf is TRYING to get in that killing bite, the Cougar is already killing him by bringing all four claws and his own considerable bite into action. and remember son, once the Cougar has the Wolf down, it's game over for the dog. The Cougar has the strength to keep him down. 
I don't know from any underground animal fight club in Canada. There may be, but I have doubts about them pitting full-grown Wolves against a full-grown Cougar. 
Ok. At this point, we're just talking past each other, and since my ol' pappy said never to argue with an idiot (people might not know the difference), let's agree that I'm right and you're wrong 
and leave it at that. 
If that doesn't suit ya, let's just agree to disagree.
Posted @ Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:03 PM by jcol
Obviously, jcol, your ol' pappy never sat down to talk with you about the proper rules of debating. 
Certainly, one of the most important rules that you've broken, is keeping the argument within logical boundaries. 
The problem with you is that when you fail to make a point, or fail to acknowledge points made by others, you either insult them or brush them off completely. 
Therefore, your arguments can be considered invalid, because for one, you insulted the person who was only trying to establish a point. And two, you seem to a have a bit of a listening problem, and a definite favoritism towards cougars. 
It's also become quite apparent to me that because of your inability to stay within logical boundaries, that your opinions have very little credibility. 
Ad hominem is a poor way to get expelled from an argument, and I'm surprised that you haven't realized that. 
You speak of the mountain lion as if it would win each and every time, but nature is not about absolutism. It's about chance, opportunity and spontaneity. You're thinking about this situation in an entirely subjective manner because of your proclivity towards cougars. 
Posted @ Monday, November 16, 2009 4:40 AM by yoda
Yoda, use the force and look back at my last post. I clearly said that the Wolf might get lucky and actually win, but my opinion is that it's not likely. 
You have just done what you have accused me of doing. I've no intention of insulting anybody, I am, again, just stating my opinion. If you find that insulting, that's your problem. 
The arguments I have used are indeed within "logical boundries", but apparently, you have trouble with the SIMPLE PREMISE of who comes out on top in a fight between a Wolf and a Cougar. My preference of the Cougar over the Wolf is due to the fact that I think the Cougar wins the battle. 
When you take into account that the Cougar is larger, stronger, quicker has five points of weopons and is used to killing animals much larger than itself, BY ITSELF, I'm not sure how anyone can come to a different conclusion. 
You keep wanting to throw in the factor of "chance", or "luck" if you will, into the fight. That's not what this little exercise is about. Golly gee, Yoda. We ALL understand how nature works. Cougars, being solitary animals, will try to avoid conflict, it can't take the chance of being injured, but AGAIN, it's simply about who would win, if it ever came to a fight. Take only the strengths and weaknesses of both animals, and let's see who come out on top. Take "chance and "luck" out of the equation. 
I can do that, and have concluded that the Cougar wins. 
You, on the other hand, feel that the Wolf must have some kind of luck on his side, in order to win. 
Am I right to make that assumption? 
If so, I'm not sure what your beef with me is, other than you think I'm somehow insulting somebody.  
Son, believe me when I say, if I really wanted to insult somebody, I would. 
But I'm trying not to.
Posted @ Monday, November 16, 2009 6:21 AM by jcol
In your previous posts, you have insulted people more than a few times: 
"You can't be this dense. I was being sarcastic." 
"At this point, we're just talking past each other, and since my ol' pappy said never to argue with an idiot (people might not know the difference), let's agree that I'm right and you're wrong."  
If you're being realistic, I say no. "If you have some kinda weird attraction, man on dog kinda thing, then go with the Wolf."  
I, on the other hand, have not written any insults towards you or your opinions. 
I was only trying to explain to you that you can't blatantly insult other people for their opinions just because they happen to make valid points. 
"You, on the other hand, feel that the Wolf must have some kind of luck on his side, in order to win." 
I never said that the wolf must have "some kind of luck on his side." You are not right in your assumption. You have clearly taken what I said out of context so that it can fit into your own subjective version of what happens within the natural world. What I clearly said was nature is not about absolutism. There are multiple variables that can come into play. So for you to say that "the cougar would win every time" is, well, unknowable. 
But since you're trying so desperately hard to convince everyone that you're right, it would also be mean that the burden of proof is on you to prove that it's true. 
Posted @ Monday, November 16, 2009 7:01 AM by yoda
Yoda, at the risk of sounding like I'm insulting you, I'm gonna try just one more time to explain this to you; 
There is no burden of proof, for ANYONE. No one is on trial here. 
I have stated my reasons as to why I think the Cougar wins this fight. 
I have said that, if the there were 10 fights between them, I could not, and would not say that the Cougar would win everytime. 
Go back and look it up. I have simply said that I believe the Cougar wins in a one-on-one fight, but it's impossible to say the Cougar wins EVERYTIME. 
If it's just one fight Yoda, JUST ONE, Cougar vs. Wolf, throw out the varibles, the luck and the pack and whatever else you can think of, and just put the two animals together and let them fight.  
I can see where I may have been harsh with some posters, but when I read that a Wolf can bite a car in two, or break the back of an Elk or Cougar with his powerful arms, how else am I supposed to respond to these Moonbats? It's beyond stupidity, and I felt compelled to call them on it. 
So I can be harsh, yeah. And I'm about to get that way again, because quite frankly, you're not offering much with your "nature can be unpredictable " routine. 
Really, Sherlock? And why is it you think nobody else knows this? 
These varibles you talk about, you think they're only gonna break for the Wolf? Can the Cat get some love, too? Since there's no way to predict what, if anything, will happen, why not just judge it by what's in front us? 
When it all boils down to gravy, we're left with two animals facing one another; one, the Cougar, has the edge in almost every category that matters. This is not "chance" or "luck", this is a cold, hard fact. 
Tell me why it is you still think the Wolf wins? After all, since most people seem to agree with me (see the poll), that the Cougar wins. IF there's a burden to bear, it's on you, not me.
Posted @ Monday, November 16, 2009 4:55 PM by jcol
Well Jcol it looks like you are coming around, before you never gave a wolf a chance in hell to beat your beloved cougar, but recently you have stated that you don't think the cougar would win 10 times out of ten. But I bet you think it wins 9.99 out of ten huh? I saw an old video of a wolverine fighting a wolf, the wolverine was clawing viciously at the wolf but the effectiveness of its claw attacks were minimized by the thick wolfs winter coat, the narrator stated that if the fight took place in the summer time that the claw attacks would have been more effective. So this leads me to believe that if a cougar attacked a wolf while it had its very thick winter fur, it would most certainly negate the four weapons that you are so fond of, then this would even the playing field thus making them both fight solely with their jaws. This is a variable that you have neglected to take into consideration. You say that the cougar is very quick and indeed it is, but wolves are very quick to, in fact wolverines are probably quicker then both cougars and wolves, but the feisty wolverine landed maybe a 1/3 of its claw attacks due to the wolf dodging its attacks in a defensive stance by hoping backwards then forward with its own counter attack. You also state that cougars take down prey much larger then themselves, but I have seen plenty of footage and I have never ever seen a cougar killing anything bigger then a large deer which aren't that much bigger then themselves. You would be insane to think that a cougar can single handedly take down a fully grown healthy bison, moose, elk, or caribou. They would need to hunt in packs like wolves or lions to be successful at such a feat. Now if the variables are on the cougars side, like encountering a lone omega wolf it would defeat it easily. If it faced a alpha wolf with a thin summer coat it would defeat the wolf probably 7 times out of ten. But if it faced a Alpha Wolf with a thick winter coat I would have to say that the wolf would have the upper hand probably 6 times out of ten. Now these aren't official statistics since there isn't any data to support it but are just my own opinionated estimation. These are both fierce creatures but there are to many variables to think that cougars would almost always beat wolves with overwhelming odds. Well at least you have came around and have given the wolf a lucky punchers chance, but I just believe that it isn't luck but rather skill and determination that these beasts possess. Even if the wolf doesn't kill the cougar but just injures it the cougar would eventually die of starvation. And if the cougar injures the wolf it has the rest of the pack to help feed it. That's why in my humble opinion the wolf is a superior predator.  
Posted @ Monday, November 16, 2009 7:01 PM by ARR
The reason why I made that reference towards nature and spontaneity, is because you seem to take this little tidbit of information for granted with your haughty attitude towards other peoples' opinions. 
I've already seen someone on here prove you wrong about the wolf intelligence thing that you so smugly discredited as being "instinct and behavior."  
But what you failed to realize is that intelligence is also a huge part of instinct and behavior.  
"Most of what you're saying is just instinct and behavior that is learned as pups watching adults." 
Yeah, really? So why isn't that a facet of intelligence? 
I still think there's a very good chance that the wolf could possibly win. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying that it's absolute, like you so proudly proclaimed in many of your earlier posts. 
Based on the fact that the wolf could use it's tremendous bite force to grab hold of the cougars neck, and hence break its spinal cord. 
If a large, Alpha wolf, with a thick winter coat, latches itself onto the back of the mountain lion's neck, it's all over for the cat. But if the cat is quick enough to incapacitate the wolf before it delivers that one fatal blow, then the cat would win. 
Posted @ Monday, November 16, 2009 10:06 PM by yoda
Well ARR, how about the soft underbelly of the Wolf? Not much thick fur there. Large cats, just like housecats, even when on thier backs, can bring thier hind-claws into play, raking the belly and legs. Other large prey, and yes, a Cougar will go after Elk and even Moose, both of them have thick winter fur, as well. 
It should be noted ARR, that the Cougar will go for the killing bite at the throat. It can very easily penetrate through the fur, they have evolved to do just that. 
I have a great respect for Wolves, and even a Grizzly Bear would be hard pressed to stand against a pack, but I have to take this little event as it was presented; 
A full grown male Cougar against a full grown male Wolf. On average, the Cougar is bigger and stronger, quicker and more agile. It has jaws and claws, as opposed to the Wolf, who only has his jaws, formidable though they may be. 
Who wins? 
We disagree, but I'm willing to say you have made some valid points, in defense of the Wolf. 
I hope that I've done the same for the Cougar. 
My opinion, and it's only my opinion, is that the Big Cat comes out on top, because the Cougar is used to catching and killing large prey, by itself. The Cougar is incredibably strong and it's instinct is to kill. 
That's why I respectfully say that if it's a one-on-one fight, the Cougar wins, maybe 8 out of ten times. This is not to slight the Wolf, just my opinion that the Big Cat may just be the 2nd top predator, in North America
Posted @ Monday, November 16, 2009 10:42 PM by jcol
I totally agree with you Yoda, it could go either way. Not all wolves or cougars are created equal. I have also read that cougars generally run away from other predators and will only stand their ground when cornered, which is really rare since cougars are so agile they could quickly elude almost anything. That just means that it instantly forfeits the fight thus losing. Just like in war if you retreat you lose.
Posted @ Monday, November 16, 2009 10:55 PM by ARR
You make a good point about the wolfs underbelly, but that just proves my point about it taking certain variables to analyze and determine the winner in a hypothetical battle between these Apex predators. The same way you asked once, do you think the cougar is just going to pick his head up and expose his skinny neck at the wolf and say have at it big boy, well I ask, do you thing the big fuzzy playful wolf is just going to roll over on his back and ask for a doggy bisquit? They both would fight to the death and they both would hold their ground, and they both are more then capable of tearing the guts out of each other. I agree the cougar has the upper hand in most scenarios but I am reluctant to underestimate the big bad Alpha wolf. I know the cougar wont.
Posted @ Monday, November 16, 2009 11:23 PM by ARR
I still don't think a cougar can take down a FULLY HEALTHY grown moose or caribou, maybe a old, young or sick one. I've seen videos of mountain rams chase off cougars. Now imagine a 2,000 lb bull moose charging a 200 lb puma. Its just hard to believe. I would need to see a video to believe. Even in the prime setting. A big moose is eating peacefully under a cliff and a cougar stealthily ambushes it and jumps on its back, the moose just gets up and shakes it off and pounces on it to death. Or the cougar just runs off causing minimal damage to the moose's back, I highly doubt it can just lock its jaws and use its weight to bring the moose to the ground, reminiscent of lions or tigers. Even lions have only a 30% success rate on taking down wildebeest. If you know of a video out there of a cougar killing a fully grown healthy moose, please enlighten me.
Posted @ Monday, November 16, 2009 11:35 PM by ARR
Yoda, if you don't know the difference between intelligence and learned behavior and animal instinct, then you're nowhere near as smart as I once thought you were. 
There are animals that never spend a moment with the adult animals that gave birth to them, yet even in the earliest moments of life, they act on instinct. Sea Turttles, upon hatching, instinctively know to make a run for the ocean. Marsupials (sp), upon birth, know to make the long climb up thier mothers body, to reach the pouch, where they will be safe. This is instinct. 
Baby rabbits learn from watching adults to stay still when danger is in the area, to not move until they have to. The Pavlov's Dog experiment is a perfect example of learned behavior, while watching a squirrell figure out how to get the seed out of a bird-feeder, is problem-solving, a sign of intelligence. 
Targeting the weakest animal out of the herd is not so much intelligence as it is learned behavior. 
There is a big difference between teaching an animal to do a trick, and then claiming the animal is intelligent. 
Apparently, you're not aware of that. 
Was that "haughty" enough for you? 
Let's stop the petty back and forth, it's not getting us anywhere, and to be honest, it bores the hell out of me. 
You've made it clear Yoda, that you don't care for the way I answer some of the posters, and I'm not sure I can express in words, how little I care.  
You simply refuse to understand what this site is all about. 
You want to throw in a bunch of "what if's", and you're trying to make a straight-foward proposition, into something else, altogether. 
Yes I proudly proclaim that I believe that the Cougar would win such an encounter, and I say so with unwavering conviction. I have said that the Cougar will  
"almost always" win. Can the Wolf win? anything is possible, but some things just aren't probable. 
You can throw in a thousand "if's" 
if it makes you feel better. 
Posted @ Monday, November 16, 2009 11:49 PM by jcol
ARR, I don't know of any video that actually shows a Cougar attacking a bull Moose, but I've heard of it happening to smaller moose weighing in excess of 800lbs. 
The Cougar is a fearless hunter, and if it gets the killing bite at the neck, it can bring down larger prey. look, the Cougar is a solitary animal. It will try to avoid conflict if it can, because it can ill afford to be injured. But don't confuse avoiding conflict with somehow being afraid, or cowardly. The cat will fight when it has to. Even a Wolf pack has been known to give up a kill, when a big, hungry male Grizzly wants food.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:06 AM by jcol
Well, jcol, let's see what the dictionary says about intelligence. 
"The capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc." 
"The faculty of understanding." 
And if you remember correctly, duey actually showed you several links that demonstrated how wolves used their intelligence. 
Thus proving your brilliant theory to be wrong: "I also don't feel the need to reiterate what I've stated from my previous posts, because I feel that I've already proven my point: by showing you the evidence of the wolves' cognitive abilities, which you so arrogantly dismissed in your earlier posts."  
You're absolutely right that animals operate on instinct and learned behavior; I'm not denying that at all.  
What I was trying to tell you is that it's all part of an organisms overall level of intelligence, or cognitive ability.  
"There is a big difference between teaching an animal to do a trick, and then claiming the animal is intelligent."  
Well, wouldn't being able to learn how to do something useful (whether it's for survival or recreation), wouldn't that also count as a form of intelligence, too? 
I always thought the acquisition of knowledge was a sign of general intelligence as well. Whether it be from a pup/cup learning to hunt, or from a dog learning to do tricks. But, apparently, you know better, and at this point, I'm willing to say that you're right about everything.  
Or, if you were really that clever, you would've undoubtedly realized that I've successfully busted your balls over the past few days. And you actually took it seriously, and decided to argue your point with someone who could give less than a rats rear end. 
"You've made it clear Yoda, that you don't care for the way I answer some of the posters, and I'm not sure I can express in words, how little I care." 
But if you really don't care, then why are you trying so hard to prove everyone wrong?  
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 3:49 AM by Yoda
Each person who came on claiming the wolf as the victor in this fight emphatically proved that they know nothing about these animals. Wolves only have the advantage in a pack. I've seen a cougar dismantle a pack of hunting dogs, which is not the equivilent, but it's telling. One wolf, regardless of the circumstances of the fight or the attack, stands only to lose his life in a toe to toe with a cougar. And for the record, if we're going to use the biggest baddest wolf available(180lbs.), then lets use the biggest cougar available--over 300lbs...that's the record for the largest cougar to date. Not even a fair match-up, we should be talkin cougar vs bear.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:56 AM by panther d
u need a life
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:06 PM by dsd
Panther d, 300lbs give me a break. Where is that 300 lb cougar available? I would like to have one, so I can order it to disembowel your stupidity. Putting that aside in my opinion it could go either way there are good arguments on both sides so I wont reiterate. These beasts are both ferocious in their own right. Oh by the way why would we want to talk about cougar v bear. Even if your imaginary 300 lb cougar existed it would stand no match to a 800 lb plus brown bear, you are just showing how naive you are, but how can we expect to get unbiased commentary from a person that names himself panther d. He must think the cougar could take on a M1 Abrams tank or something. How comical.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:44 PM by nimrod
Jcol here is a direct quote from an online encyclopedia source aka wikipedia. In reference to the natural predators moose face. 
An Iron age saddle from Siberia, depicting a moose being hunted by a Siberian tiger  
A moose battling a wolf pack, as illustrated in The Natural History of Quadrupeds by Frederick Shoberl, 1834A full-grown moose has few enemies, but a pack of wolves can still pose a threat, especially to females with calves.[16] Siberian Tigers [17] and Brown Bear[18][19] are also known to prey on juvenile moose, although bears are more likely to take over a wolf kill than to hunt moose on their own.[20] American Black Bears and Cougars can be significant predators of moose calves in May and June.[21][22] 
In some areas, moose are the primary source of food for wolves. Moose usually flee upon detecting wolves. Wolves usually follow moose at a distance of 100–400 meters, occasionally at a distance of 2–3 km. Attacks from wolves against young moose may last seconds, though sometimes they can be drawn out for days with adults. Sometimes, wolves will chase moose into shallow streams or onto frozen rivers, where their mobility is greatly impeded. Moose will sometimes stand their ground and defend themselves by charging at the wolves or lashing out at them with their powerful hooves. Wolves typically kill moose by tearing at their haunches and perineum, causing massive blood loss. Occasionally, a wolf may immobilise a moose by biting its sensitive nose, the pain of which can paralyze a moose.[23] Wolf packs primarily target calves and elderly animals, but can and will take healthy, adult moose. Moose between the ages of two and eight are rarely killed by wolves.[24] Though moose are usually hunted by packs, there are cases in which single wolves have successfully killed moose.[25] 
In your previous post you said that you have "heard" of cases of cougars taking down 800lb moose, but do you actually have a documented proof of such occurrences? I haven't, but if you have any sources let me know. In the above article it clearly states that cougars can pose a threat to calves, not fully grown healthy bull or cow moose. Cougars just don't have the stamina to deal with such a overwhelming powerful creature. On the flip side wolves have been known to kill moose without the help from a pack, and this is how they accomplish it. They have the stamina to chase the moose for hours upon hours until the moose reaches complete exhaustion and collapses due to fatigue, the rest is history. 
About intelligence the last time I checked learned behaviour is also a form of intelligence. A human is not born with the ability to perform open heart surgery, they learn and study. The capacity to learn and adapt in my opinion is the epitome of intelligence.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:16 PM by ARR
Yoda, you couldn't bust my balls if I cut 'em off, lay 'em on a table and gave you a hammer and told you to whack away. You're not fooling anyone. You get offended because you don't have a sense of humor, and can't understand when someone is yanking somebody else's chain. You got your panties all twisted up and just had to jump in. 
And that's ok. I've got time to waste, might as well waste it on you. Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right, etc.... 
Pay attention, maybe you'll learn something, but I doubt it. 
The links that duey showed me, in my opinion, were more about behavior and instinct. They talked about hunting techniques, and pack hierarchy, of which, members learn as pups, from watching the adult members. But guess what? Look at ANY animal that lives within a pack-like structure, and you'll find the same characteristics. These are parents teaching thier young on how to survive, how to hunt, what to hunt, what to avoid, etc. 
Does it take intelligence to learn these things? To a certain degree, yes. But it doesn't mean the animal in question, is SUPER-intelligent, as some are trying to make out. Animals are predisposed to act or react in certain ways from years of evolution. I contend that this doesn't take intelligence so much as it's just nature doing it's thing. With that said, try to understand that I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong. People can believe whatever they WANT to believe. I have, however, exposed you as a puffed-up, psuedo-intellectual, who just doesn't get it.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:19 PM by jcol
ARR, This is from Wikipedia; 
[edit] Hunting and diet 
A successful generalist predator, the cougar will eat any animal it can catch, from insects to large ungulates (over 500 kg). Like all cats, it is an obligate carnivore, feeding only on meat. The Mean weight of vertebrate prey (MWVP) was positively correlated (r=0.875) with puma body weight and inversely correlated (r=-0.836) with food niche breadth in all America. In general, MWVP was lower in areas closer to the Equator.[3] Its most important prey species are various deer species, particularly in North America; mule deer, white-tailed deer, elk, and even the large moose are taken by the cat. Other species such as Bighorn Sheep, wild horses of Arizona, domestic horses, and domestic livestock such as cattle and sheep are also primary food bases in many areas.[30] A survey of North America research found 68% of prey items were ungulates, especially deer. Only the Florida Panther showed variation, often preferring feral hogs and armadillos.[3] Cougars are ambush predators, feeding mostly on deer and other mammals.Investigation in Yellowstone National Park showed that elk, followed by mule deer, were the cougar's primary targets; the prey base is shared with the park's gray wolves, with whom the cougar competes for resources.[31] Another study on winter kills (November–April) in Alberta showed that ungulates accounted for greater than 99% of the cougar diet. Learned, individual prey recognition was observed, as some cougars rarely killed bighorn sheep, while others relied heavily on the species.[32] 
In the Central and South American cougar range, the ratio of deer in the diet declines. Small to mid-size mammals are preferred, including large rodents such as the capybara. Ungulates accounted for only 35% of prey items in one survey, approximately half that of North America. Competition with the larger jaguar has been suggested for the decline in the size of prey items.[3] Other listed prey species of the cougar include mice, porcupine, and hares. Birds and small reptiles are sometimes preyed upon in the south, but this is rarely recorded in North America.[3] 
Though capable of sprinting, the cougar is typically an ambush predator. It stalks through brush and trees, across ledges, or other covered spots, before delivering a powerful leap onto the back of its prey and a suffocating neck bite. The cougar is capable of breaking the neck of some of its smaller prey with a strong bite and momentum bearing the animal to the ground.[22] 
Kills are generally estimated at around one large ungulate every two weeks. The period shrinks for females raising young, and may be as short as one kill every three days when cubs are nearly mature at around 15 months.[19] The cat drags a kill to a preferred spot, covers it with brush, and returns to feed over a period of days. It is generally reported that the cougar is a non-scavenger and will rarely consume prey it has not killed; but deer carcasses left exposed for study were scavenged by cougars in California, suggesting more opportunistic behavior 
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:40 PM by jcol
Jcol I agree with you that wolves don't possess super intelligence, but they do exhibit more intelligence then most animals. I think it is amazing how the alpha wolf uses his authority to pin his ears back, point and single out the target in a herd of prey. Then it orders his pack to funnel the targeted prey away from the herd and into the open field away from the defense of other members in its herd. Such perceived strategy and coordination demonstrates the mental capacity of tactics. Even native Americans credit some of their ancestors hunting stratigies coming directly by observation of wolves hunting tactics.(Before the invention of the bow and arrow) So if a human race can learn from this species proves without a shadow of a doubt the wolf's intelligence, although not being super intelligence, but intelligence none the less.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:57 PM by ARR
ARR, I think early man learned much of what they knew about hunting from observing predators like Wolves. again, I have a great appreciation foe the Wolf, and ALL wildlife, but there's something about watching a top predator, lone hunter or pack, go after prey. 
The point of attack, when the kill is made, is such a primal thing that brings out the "beast" in us.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:12 PM by jcol
Wow that's incredible 500kg is over 1,000lbs. I still find it hard to believe. Its like a lion taking down an rhinoceros if you equate proportions. Now it said it would eat anything it can catch but kill is another matter. Even a coyote could catch a dead moose. (Hahaha just kidding) But seriously even a coyote could catch and kill a sick or weakened 1000lb moose. The article does not conclusively specify the health conditions of the animal, so I still stand behind my claim that a cougar could not take down a FULLY GROWN HEALTHY bull moose in its prime. Having said that I can see a sick/injured one or an elderly weak one being taken out though.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:20 PM by ARR
That must have been one hungry Cat... 
I'm of a mind to say that prey that big is not what a Cougar would normally go after, the cat had to have been desperate. Being an ambush predator however, I don't think the Cougar has much say as to if the prey is sick or healthy. 
They pretty much take what they can catch. But 1,000lb is something that doesn't happen very often.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:35 PM by jcol
And I have to say that, although I don't know if the 1000lb moose was healthy or sick, I do know it wasn't feeling too well when the Cougar got done with him. :)
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:43 PM by jcol
They are both tough, but I think the wolf is tougher, because they have more experience in combat because they fight other wolves in their pack and wolves in rival packs to determine dominance and territory. Cougar mostly avoid confrontation they rarely even fight each other. I think the wolves powerful jaws, stamina, fighting experience and quickness slightly outweigh the cougars agility, claws, and slight size advantage. My opinion wolf wins.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:00 PM by kaiser
Jcol if a wolf can discern and distinguish a sick or injured animal, don't you think the cougar can as well? You yourself have said that you are not willing to accept that wolves are more intelligent then cougars. I smell a contradiction my friend. The fact of the matter is that both predators can tell the difference. Therefore targeting the young and weak to have the advantage of a easy meal. That just displays the intelligence of both predators. Here's a analogy, would you climb Mt Everest to pick a berry that you can purchase at your local grocery store? Cougars and Wolves are both smart and opportunistic they would prefer the quick easy meal over the hard nearly impossible one, unless they are both starving and desperate.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:30 PM by ARR
ARR, I didn't say a cougar couldn't discern a sick or unhealthy animal, it's just that the cougar is a stealth, ambush hunter. It get's as close as it can to it's prey because it has to. 
He doesn't have the luxury of choosing the sick, weak or old, he has to go with whatever is close. He can chase, but he doesn't have the stamina of the Wolf. 
Wolves can pick out a single animal and effectively cut it out from the heard, during the chase.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:47 PM by jcol
Well, jcol, what can I possibly say to that? 
It seems as if you've outdone yourself yet again, with your own rendition of what you think is right. But being that I'm a "puffed up, pseudo-intellectual," I guess this should be pretty easy to understand. 
My good sir, jcol, thank you for proving my point: It just goes to show how uncertain you are about your opinions, when you have to resort to petulant name-calling because someone else refuted your point of view with a well reasoned argument. 
But even a pseudo-intellectual like myself can tell when someone has contradicted himself, but yet again you failed to realize that. 
And being that I'm a "pseudo-intellectual," I've realized that it's better to use logic than to resort to ad hominem, which you have become well know for. At least in this argument, anyway. 
"The links that duey showed me, in my opinion, were more about behavior and instinct." 
I think one of the other links that duey showed you talked about how wolves in captivity were once observed trying to open up a gate, but you didn't acknowledge that. So I'll re-post just for your convenience, because you're my buddy. :-) 
"Gordon K. Smith, who had a wolf pack in captivity, sometimes observed the wolves attempting to open a gate. Sometimes, they are quite successful. This man believes that the eastern timber wolf does this the best. He believes that some wolves are more mechanically inclined than others. Also, the eastern timber wolf shows emotions more clearly than other wolves. It butters other pack members up to get it's way, and shows depression when it doesn't. It expresses great joy and happiness clearly." 
Again, jcol, I never said that wolves demonstrated "super intelligence." I'm not sure where you got that idea from. I also can't remember the last time White Fang was ever awarded a Nobel prize in physics. <Insert joke here. 
So much for not having a sense of humor, huh? 
But something tells me you won't be able to ignore this rebuttal either, and you'll end up writing out yet another long-winded diatribe about how swell-headed and puffed up I am. So go ahead, buddy. I'm counting on it. 
After all, you do have time to waste, and I should feel privileged enough to have you spent that time on me. 
I have, after all, proved that you cannot retort back to my comments without using childish insults.  
Posted @ Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:30 AM by yoda
Yoda, for someone who "doesn't give a rat's ass", you sure do get offended easily. Go back and READ my post, I do indeed address the "Wolf opens gate" story. 
There is nothing new in this rebuttal to respond to, really. 
I've yet to see a "well reasoned" argument from you, in truth, I don't think you're capable of it. 
When I post something, I'm usually pretty confident that I have it right. That doesn't mean that I AM right, but there's nothing wrong with stating an opinion in a forth-right manner. You seem to be upset that I'm not on the fence on this dispute. Why? 
Weigh the evidence, look at the facts and make your choice. Then we debate. Yes, it can become heated, but you're throwing red herrings into the process with your "what if" scenarios. 
ANd Yoda, understand me on this, and I'll type slowly to make it easier for you; I do NOT engage in "petulant name-calling". 
I only do mature, he-man, masculine type, name-calling. 
If you're too sensitive for that, stay clear. 
I can't be responsible for your feelings.
Posted @ Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:30 AM by jcol
SAY, NIMROD, if you'll simply dig deeper you can find the info just as easily as i did on the largest cougar on record; got no reason to make up weight ranges 'cause it doesnt matter; just thought it was a point of interest. I know what a cougar can take on, thats any other predator in their range. See i learned a long long time ago that reading is fundamental; try it and you'll actually LEARN stuff too!
Posted @ Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:19 AM by panther d
The only question I have, nimrod, is WHY do you like the Wolf's chances? 
Clearly, the Cougar is larger, stronger, quicker and is used to killing prey larger than itself, by itself. 
This is not to say that the Wolf doesn't have ANY chance, anything can happen, but just how much of a chance does the Wolf really have? 
I'm just interested as to what reasons people have for picking the Wolf.
Posted @ Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:21 AM by jcol
I have some good reasons for picking the wolf. 
"Another myth is that packs are required to bring down large prey; several observers have seen single wolves catch and kill elk and moose. The first wolf to return to Sweden after the extermination of its wolf population regularly brought down large moose by itself." 
"Another common misconception about wolves hunting, is that only large wolf packs can kill large animals. This is also untrue . . . a single wolf having been seen to kill a moose, eleven times, by itself with no pack to help it."
Posted @ Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:41 AM by sally
There have actually been several males taken over 300 lbs, it's no myth, even if it's not common. Fact is, once you get to the northern and southern extremes of the cats range, the larger they are and the more often adult males exceed the "average" size. What may or may not be mythical is the dozens of accounts from Indians, hunters, and frontiersmen who claim that when bear and cougar square off, cougar usually wins or they draw. Now I dont think all these folks biasly called themselves panther d, but by the same token i dont know what hard evidence there is to support their claims. Just seems odd that all these folks from all these different places, cultures, and times all have the same story. The playing field is way more even with a bear than it is with a lone wolf. He may be vicious. He may be powerful. But he's got one weapon: a mighty set of jaws. So does the big cat. But the cat also has 4 sets of big, razor sharp daggers flashing with lightning speed and precision. Thats like Tyson and Ali stepping into the ring in their prime, but Tyson has one arm cut off and Ali has two extra arms. It's not a match.
Posted @ Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:27 PM by panther d
If it was not a match then why the debate. Yes the cougar has 5 points of attack we all are aware of that. But I equate that to having 5 six shooter pistols, on the other hand the wolf has a howitzer. They can cut through bone like butter to eat the marrow of its prey, cougars can't so they leave the bones to waste. You may have Native American folklore or stories of 300 lb plus coubar roaming around, but you have yet to demonstrate hard evidence. You claim of cougars always defeating or drawing with brown bears but every single video I have seen the cougar gets his ass handed to him by the grizzly bear. The cougar does not even try to attack for the most part. Here is a little true story, my grandfather and I were hunting coyotes some where in northern montana. We observed a male cougar attacking a wolfs den in most likely to kill and eat its cubs. Shortley there after a majestic male wolf came in defense of the wolfs lair and bit the cougar in the hind quarters breaking its leg right in half the cougar attempted to run but was so severly injured that it went into shock. Needless to say it was consumed by the wolf along with its mate and cubs. Thats how powerful their bites are. I have also read in the yellowstone journal that wolves have been observed raiding cougar dens killing not only cougar cubs but the mother it self. Now having said all that I am not saying that the wolf is absolute over the cougar, in fact I think it could go either way. I am just not willing to accept the notion that the wolf does not stand a chance. But I do firmly believe that neither one stand a chance one on one with a grizzly, but wolves stand a chance in packs. Does this answer your question Jcol? By the way panther d south of the equater the cougar is much much smaller, its towards the north whre it grows much larger. Plus south of the equater they face the Jaguar, and no they dont stand a chance against the third largest cat in the world.
Posted @ Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:11 PM by Nimrod
Well, nimrod, as has been alluded to here on this site, anything can happen. I have to say that, although the Wolf's bite is very powerfull indeed, I don't think it's as powerful as you make it out to be. The Cougar's bite is powerfull in it's own right. What the Cougar has that the Wolf doesn't, is the ability to use his four claws as weopons. Taken in junction with his superior strength, the big Cat is able to hold (and injure in the process), and control his advasary, while biting at the same time. 
If the Wolf doesn't get in at least a crippling bite from the get-go, the odds are against it. 
BUT, anything CAN happen. 
Posted @ Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:58 PM by jcol
Here is a little article to help support the claim of the wolves superior bite strength. The Cougar's bite strength does'nt even come close to that of a wolf. Cougar bite strength comes in at 400 lbs per sq inch, very strong indeed, but not as strong as the wolf's. Not to mention that wolves have 2 layers of fur that measures 2.5 inches thick during the winter. Sorry but the cougars claws are almost worthless against the wolf's thick fur. Unless the wolf rolls over and exposes its belly. I once saw a video of 2 male wolves attack a single male cougar and scare it off its fresh kill. And no it wasnt 2 wolves against one, because the other wolf was fighting off the cougar while the other started eating the kill. I counted the punches or swipes the cougar attempted to land and it made 0 contact, showing the wolf's elusivness to evade attack. Now the cougar was not killed but it shows that at times wolves can be superior. I have read peoples claims in this forum that cougars are much faster then wolves and that is false, they both run at top speeds of 35-40 mph, but with the wolf's increbile stamina it can sustain its top speed longer then the puma. They can also swim and chase prey into rivers and streams, something most cats dont do. With the exceptions of Jaguars and Tigers.  
Here is the source of the following article. 
Most of the adult grey wolves weigh in the vicinity of 75 to 125 pounds (34 to 56 kilograms). Males are usually larger than females by as much as twenty-five percent. There are authenticated records of male wolves weighing as much as 175 pounds (79 kilograms). 
As large as wolves are, they usually appear to much larger because of their long hair. In the winter coat, the hair on their back and sides averages 2 to 2.5 inches (5 to 6.3 centimeters) in length. Starting at the base of the neck, the wolf has a teardrop-shaped mane of hair that elongates into just a crest down the spine toward the tail. Over the shoulder, the mane is about 6 inches (15.2 centimeters) wide. The hairs in the mane are 4 to 5 inches (10 to 12.7 centimeters) long and are attached to erectorpilli muscles, which allow the hairs to stand on end, making the wolf appear even larger. 
Extensive studies of the North American wolf species show between 50 to 70 inches (1.3 to 1.8 metres) in total nose-tip-to-tail-tip length. Of that length, one quarter is tail length. 
Wolves Stand between 27 to 31 inches (68 to 78 centimeters) high at the shoulder. Compared to dogs of the same size, wolves' chests are much narrower. Their legs are also longer in proportion to their body weight than are most dogs. Because of its narrower chest, the wolf's left and right foot tracks closer together than the dogs. 
back to top 
The wolf has very strong jaws. According to Barry Lopez in Of Wolves and Men, the jaws of a wolf have a "crushing pressure of perhaps 1,500 (lbs/square inch) compared to 740 (lbs/square inch) for a German Shepherd." The dentition of the wolf consists of twenty-two teeth: twelve incisors, four canines, sixteen pre molars, and ten carnassials and molars. The canines of the wolf are 1-inch (2.54 centimeters) long, strong, sharp, and slightly curved. These are the teeth used for grasping prey. The wolf does not chew its food, using its carnassials to scissor off a piece of meat that can then be swallowed in a manageable chunk. Having strong jaws allows the wolf to crush bones to get to the soft marrow, it also helps the wolf eat most of its prey leaving very little waste 
back to top 
Wolves walk, trot, lope, or gallop. Their legs are long, and they walk at about 4 miles (6.4 kilometers) per hour, but can reach speeds of 35 mph during a chase. Their usual mode of travel is to trot, which they do at various speeds, generally between 8 to 10 miles (12.8 to 16 kilometers) per hour. 
Wolves do not run at full speed until they get close to their prey as possible. At that point, they make a high-speed chase to test the animal. 
Wolves can keep up this pace for hours on end and have been known to cover 60 miles (96 kilometers) in a single night. They have been clocked at speeds of over 40 miles (64 kilometers) per hour for a distance of several miles. 
back to top 
The wolf is very comfortable in the water, and does not hesitate to wade through icy streams or swim across short stretches of lake. In summer, wolves often bathe in streams to keep cool, and they will readily follow prey into water. 
Posted @ Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:16 PM by ARR
ARR, you're saying that the Cougar's claws would be useless in a fight against the wolf? 
Hmmm. Would you, by chance, know how thick the pelt is on a moose or elk or deer is, during the winter? I'm asking because,1; I don't know, and 2; however thick it may be, and it must be fairly thick, it doesn't seem to help it much against the Cougar's attack. I think those claws will inflict some serious damage to the Wolf. 
And to be clear, it's not how "fast" the Cougar is, so much as it is it's "quickness". 
The term, "cat-like reflexes" is definitive in and of itself. That quickness, combined with the Cougar's amazing agility, his superior strength and weaponry (is that a word?), is just too much for the Wolf to overcome. 
BUT, anything can happen.
Posted @ Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:42 PM by jcol
Notice that I said ALMOST WORTHLESS, as in terms of inflicting serious injury. Sure it can still use them for grasping, maneuvering, and latching, but not killing. The cougar does not kill with its claws, it uses its claws to latch on the prey, holding on and using its jaws to bite the neck thus suffocating its prey to death. The damage caused by its claws are not as much as you think, we aren't discussing tiger or grizzly bear claws, witch are known to crush skulls like pumpkins. I have seen large puma claws up close, and they measured 1.5 inches in length pretty long indeed but not long enough to pierce and penetrate completely through 2 layers of 2.5 inch thick mane. Nobody disputes the effectiveness of lions mane, so why do you Jcol undermine the potential effectiveness of the wolf's. Defense is just as important as offense don't you think? Its like covering your body with 3 thick blankets and using a sharpened hand held garden rake to inflict damage. Not as potent as it being on bare flesh.
Posted @ Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:22 PM by ARR
I'm sure the wolf's pelt does offer some protection, I just don't think it offers as much as you think it does. You're not taking into account the force used by the Cat when striking and raking. I think those claws will cause more than a little pain, moreso in places where the fur is not as thick. Remember, we're talking up to four claws, in four seperate areas of the Wolf's body. 
The Lion's mane is much thicker, and yet still, other male Lions are able to inflict mortal injuries when they fight to take over a pride, or defend territory.
Posted @ Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:40 PM by jcol
Point well taken, but if the cougar is using all 4 claws that means if was sucessful in taking down the wolf game over. Because it has it on the ground. But during a potential fight its 2 claws and jaws. Keep in mind the video I saw the wolf was able to dodge all the cougars claw attacks, so in my opinion the wolfs fur defense and quickness to avoid the cougars claw swiping helps its odds. It can then use a caculated attempt to clamp on any given point of the cougar. And if it does it should be able to injure the cougar sufficiently, allowing it to go for the final killing blow.
Posted @ Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:08 PM by ARR
IF the Wolf can bite down on a vital spot, it may indeed be curtains for the Cat, but remember; 
the Cat, on average, is at least 25lbs heavier, and much quicker. In any given fight,I don't see the Wolf dodging all of the Cougars attacks, especially since the Wolf has to lead with his head. If the Cougar connects with the Wolf's sensitive nose, that could end the fight pretty quick. But the Cat can't spend too much time clawing away at the heavy fur of the Wolf. 
Just as the Wolf must quickly find a vital place to attack, so must the Cat. 
My opinion is the Cat has a better chance of doing it first. 
But then, just as a single wolf should never even think of going one-on-one with a Cougar, the Cougar would most likely avoid a confrontation if it could. 
The Wolf might survive a serious injury with aid from his pack, the Cougar would most likely die, if it was too injured to hunt effectively. 
Although, an injured alpha male Wolf, is himself vulnerable to forces within his own pack. 
Ok, you've convinced me that the Wolf has a better chance than I had first thought. 
I'll go 70-30, Cougar.
Posted @ Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:49 PM by jcol
Nimrod, i'm aware that the tropical pumas are the smallest variety, it's at the southern extremes where they are larger than average, as well as the northern extremes. Your story sounds a lot like the ones I've read, but of course you're completely credible and no one else is, right? My question is why have there been so many people, who stand to gain nothing by it, conspire to make the cat superior if it's not? I dont know how many different references I've seen where eye-witness accounts(like yours)from naturalists and tribal Indians have the puma whipping the jaguar. Trust me, i'd prefer to be able to see that myself, but still why make this stuff up?
Posted @ Friday, November 20, 2009 9:57 AM by panther d
So it whips the the grizzly bear, now the jaguar, what else panther d? Have you heard of tribal bushmen in the savannah of Africa saying that pumas escaped from their local zoos only to whip the lion and the nile croc and the spotted hyena? Although I do think it could take on a leopard, since they are evenly matched. I never doubted the pumas capability of whipping the wolf, I just don't agree that it whoops it all the time every time night in and night out. I certainly don't believe it could whoop a grizzly bear. Did you know that one swipe of the grizzly bears paws can kill the puma on impact? The jaguar please, the jaguar outweighs the little pumas of the amazon by at least 150 lbs. Jaguars average over 300lbs. The puma in the amazon averages 130lbs. There isn't any animal in the amazon that rivals the jaguar other then maybe the anaconda and cayman crocs, but on land nothing else. Please quit embarrassing your self, I love pumas as much as you do, I think they are bad ass, but there is always a bigger and better bad ass out there.
Posted @ Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:28 AM by Nimrod
I also want to mention that the Jaguar might indeed be the only predator that is both apex and keystone.
Posted @ Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:50 AM by Nimrod
I'm not embarrassed at all Nimrod, I'm sharing what I've found. I'm not the one who claims to have seen these things ya know. I know that one swipe of a grizzly's paw to a bison's head will kill it, so yes I'd say that would be true in a cougar's case too. You seem to think I'm throwing this stuff out there as ignorant opinion. My opinion was the same as yours, that the grizzly and the jaguar, the black bear and even the wolverine(since they'll take the cat's kill) all lorded it over the cougar, but my opinion changed when I couldnt find anything to say that was the case, all I could find was the contrary. It seems reasonable to me that if there are dozens and dozens of the same story being told by all sorts of different people, there has to be some validity to it. I could be wrong. But I'm just reporting it, you'll have to take issue with the ones who make the claims!
Posted @ Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:06 PM by panther d
Hey panther d, are your sources legitimate? Do you have any links to substantiate these claims? Can you provide factual evidence? Or are your sources just anonymous? Just curious.
Posted @ Sunday, November 22, 2009 5:00 PM by ARR
ARR, I doubt if he even believes these claims. I smell spite.
Posted @ Sunday, November 22, 2009 5:11 PM by Nimrod
panther d are you kidding me? You cant be serious. Cougar beating up on Jaguars and Grizzlies. Come one kid, quit yanking my chain.
Posted @ Sunday, November 22, 2009 5:13 PM by kaiser
"Bears of the world", "Swamp Screamer", "The Naturalist in La Plata","Standard Natural History", "California Grizzly" "The New International Encyclopedia" "Big Game Fields of America" "Burton's Gentlemen's Magazine"....guys, I just read it. Draw your own conclusions about it.
Posted @ Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:21 PM by panther d
Wow, this is epic where common sense meets retards. 
Obviously, shown in the movie, cougar wins, end of that.  
And if it happens again a couple of times, yeah, maybe a wolf will get away from harm.  
Smart answer: Cougar wins for more weapons, heavier, and fast acting. 
Retarded answer: Wolves win cause they can crush a car door or a Ford F-150 with a bite!! They can be big like the wolves on New Mo0n! Dur Hur!!
Posted @ Monday, November 30, 2009 1:34 PM by ID
So you take that one retarded answer and run away with it like it was the only relevant response on this forum. While completely disregarding every other valid point made in favour for the wolf. Hmmm?
Posted @ Monday, November 30, 2009 6:20 PM by ARR
...."Life Among the Apaches", "Puma, Legendary Lion of America", "The Great Bear Almanac" are good reads too....
Posted @ Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:42 AM by panther d
you also have to take into account wolves hunt in packs it is very rare to find a lone wolf far from the pack. if the wolf felt threatend it would signal for the pack and the cougar would be fucked. a cougar would not be able to get out of a wolves lock jaw either although they are smaller the are brilliant fighters
Posted @ Friday, December 04, 2009 5:22 PM by Wolfey
Wolfey, the ONLY thing you have to take into account is the simple question of who wins in a fight between the two animals. 
It's just that simple. 
I don't understand why some of you people want to make this into anything other than what it is; 
Wolf Vs. Cougar 
Put the two of them in the ring and let them duke it out, one-on-one. 
We are NOT talking about what might happen if these two were to meet in the natural confines of nature, there are no varibles to add in this little exercise. No packs coming to the aid of the Wolf. 
It is simply, again, one Wolf vs. one Cougar. 
Place your bet.
Posted @ Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:03 PM by jcol
Umm wolfy...they CAN get out of their bit. What, you think they just freeze up and lose their ability to use their claws or strength? and wolves aren't the only ones smart. Every animal have their own tactics and wits.  
Plus, I think a lot of wolves will have their ass handed to them before taking down a cougar.
Posted @ Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:56 PM by Honda
actually, ARR presented some very valid points about the variables that could come into play within this particular situation. 
If the gray wolf has a thick winter coat, then it could possibly be used as a barrier against the cougars claws, and if that was case, then the fight would be broken down to a battle against their jaws. 
The wolf's bite strength is far superior compared to that of the mountain lion, but it would all depend on how the fight turned out, and where it takes place. 
We must not forget that the environment is also a very important variable. 
If the fight took place in a snowy, Northern environment, the wolf would have the upper hand, but if the fight took place down South, the mountain lion would have the advantage. Snowy environment=thicker fur for the wolf; thick enough to insulate the wolf from extremely cold temperatures, as they generally spend more time traveling extensively long distances on their feet than cougars do. 
it's also been documented that single wolf's have been known to kill adult mountain lions, albeit rarely, but it has occurred before. 
plus, the video that was posted above looks as if it was filmed during the springtime, which would mean an obvious disadvantage to the wolf.  
"It is rare for a wolf to kill a mature cougar, but it has happened and wolves occasionally kill cougar cubs. Overall, wolf-cougar interactions are rarely observed because of the rarity of the two species, but the two generally share an animosity towards each other, since they both prey on large game." 
I could see the Mackenzie Valley Wolf being a worthy adversary against the mountain lion. As they are the largest subspecies of Gray Wolf known to man, and according to Wikipedia, their bite force is strong enough to "break the bones of prey and even crack the femur of moose."  
"Its powerful neck is a very important adaptation: it has to be strong to support the wolf's large head and is crucial for bringing down prey." I think it's safe to say that the Mackenzie Valley Wolf could give the cougar a run for its money. But I'm not willing to say that it's definite.
Posted @ Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:37 PM by ronald
ronald, as we all know by now, Elk is one the food sources for both the Cougar and the Wolf. During the winter months, the Elk has two layers of fur, along with a heavy mane that covers the neck area. The Cougar, a solitary hunter, has no problem delivering a killing bite on the Elk, even with all that "protective" fur. The two coats on the Elk, as well as on the Wolf, are not designed to "protect" these animals from the attack of a predator, but rather to help ward off the chill of the winter season. The same holds true for Mule Deer and Moose, both of which are hunted by both predators. 
Think about this for just a minute. 
Not only does the cat deliver a killing bite, it also has the strength to hold down an animal that usually out-weighs it by at least 2 to 1, and sometimes more. 
Let's get off this "protective fur" defense system for the Wolf, because while it may offer a modicum of SOME protection, it will NOT be enough to stop the Cougar.
Posted @ Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:43 PM by jcol
you're right about the Elk having two layers of fur, man, but remember, Elk aren't equipped with lethal, bone-crunching canines that can exert over a 1000lbs. worth of pressure on whatever it happens to bite. We're talking about a reasonably large canine that can bite through bone here. 
of course the cougar isn't going to have a problem taking down an Elk because they're not predators; cougars have evolved to take down large ungulates much bigger than themselves, and wolves have, too. if a full grown, alpha male, Mackenzie-Valley Wolf locks its jaws on to the neck of the cougar, it could very easily snap its vertebrae, that coupled with the thick pelt could offer at least a marginal degree of protection against its claws. The claws could definitely do some damage, but ultimately it's the bite that will determine which animal will win. 
And although fairly uncommon, the Gray wolf has also been known to take down prey MUCH larger than itself by itself, without the help of the pack. I'm not saying it's definite, but based on the sheer bite force of the wolf alone, I think that it could possibly win. 
but the probability of the wolf winning is somewhat slim at best considering the overall strength of the cougar, but it's not out of the question, either. It all depends on how fast the wolf is. 
Posted @ Monday, December 07, 2009 1:49 AM by ronald
No the Elk doesn't have teeth with which to defend itself, but it does have size, weight and sometimes, a rather impressive set of antlers, or as we like to call them where I'm from; "clown-stabbers". 
The point I'm trying to make is that the Cougar is just one big coiled spring of muscle with jaws and claws. And the Wolf can't out-quick the Cat. Plus, if it comes to a short sprint, the cat is just as fast, if not faster, than the Wolf. Granted, it'd be a pretty short sprint, but still, the cat's speed is impressive for 40-50 yards. 
This is not to say the Wolf stands no chance against the Cougar, but the odds are against it. 
Gotta go now, but I'll talk later about the Wolf taking down large prey.
Posted @ Monday, December 07, 2009 6:22 AM by jcol
Lets also not go overboard with how inferior the cougar's bite is in comparison. At a 1000 psi, the wolf's bite strength is undeniable, but the cats are known to bite through the skulls of horses and cattles. Their bite force is 600 to 900 psi, depending on the size of the cat, which is not exactly weak. And I'd love to know where the documentation is that a lone wolf kills a HEALTHY adult puma.
Posted @ Monday, December 07, 2009 10:25 AM by panther d
By the way people talk about wolves it is like they don't know anything about them. First off, wolves have an extremely tough hide. Second Wolves are very quick and agile. they can do backflips and jump over six feet off the ground they have shorter legs than a cougar and their back legs are weaker than a cougars but their front legs are much stronger, strong enough to break a mule deers backin one blow. A mule deer has bones about as strong as a cougar so a wolf would go for the back bone. Wolves have a bite force of up to 1500 psi but it is usually in the 1000- 1200 range for lower 48 wolves. Wolves in the lower 48 are generally pack animals about as big as in the description for the fight. But large wolves in areas like alberta and alaska grow well over 200 pounds. In fact there was a 235 pound wolf shot a while ago that is all over the web. This wolf and most canadian and alaskan wolves are loners.The hunters say that this wolf attacked a scared away a big male black bear they were hunting.sometime find a dog like a mastiff and feel it's arm. It will be solid with muscle a wolfs arm is like this but even bigger and stronger. Cougars dish out a painful bite force as well of anywhere from small ones at 400psi to monsters at around 800psi. Either animal will destroy you obviously. couagars have huge rear legs witch allow them to jump 16 feet STRAIGHT UP and 30 feet forward. So the cougar has astonishing rear leg strength but the wolf has astoninshing front leg strength. Oh, and just to give an example of the canid families strenght i have a 130 pound dog and my 60 pound dog was running at him so he ran at the 60 pound dog gave him a swipe of his paw and sent a 60 pound animal flying joe he landed and didn't move for a while but he just had the wind knocked out of him. This hit was not even meant to kill just to stop. 
Now to how the fight would probably go. 
The mountain lion and wolf would sense each other and the wolf would just continue moving along and see what happens.The mountain lion would stalk the wolf and wait for the ideal moment and leap from a rock. The wolf would sense it just in time to dodge it and swat it down. but the cougar will dance around the wolf and try to go for the back.A wolf is very smart and will let the cougar come up near it and them lash out an instant before the cougar with either huge jaws or powerful claws. on a lower 48 wolf the mountain lion would likely win because the wolf is used to fighting with atleast one other wolf to cover its back. On the northern senario they would probably both be adult males. The cougar would attack the same way. The wolf would let it circle only a little and then the fight could go two ways the cougar could decide to leave because it thinks the fight will end in a lose for it and then turn and run so the wolf wouldn't get it but the wolf would run at its full speed of 40 mph which is slightly faster than the cougars of 35 mph. and completely suprise it by simply running it over, wolfs and cougars are both solid muscle and a wolves chest is like a piece of iron and this would knock out the big cat setting it up to be killed. But if the cat jumps into a tree first first it will get away. But if the cougar stayed to fight it would put many scares on the wolf with viscious kick and claws. Then the wolf would learn more strategy and right when the cougar charges run straight at it and swipe both claws into it crushing ribs the sernum or the neck.
Posted @ Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:25 PM by kenny
correstion: It would put many SCARS on the wolf.
Posted @ Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:28 PM by kenny
Correction again: sternum, not sernum
Posted @ Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:30 PM by kenny
I hardly know where to begin..... 
Kenny, could you please tell me where in the blue hell did you get the idea that a Wolf's fore-legs are strong enough to break a mule deer's back? Seriously? I mean really dude, that's just the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. 
I'm really trying to show some restraint here, so I'll stop now and let you explain this notion that about the Wolf's fore-legs being stronger than a Cougar's, and able to break the back of a mule deer. I'm trying to draw a mental picture as to just how the wolf go about doing this. 
(not to mention swatting a Cougar out of the air. You do understand that we're talking about Wolves, NOT Werewolves. Because Werewolves don't exist Kenny, ok? ) 
So go ahead, tell me how the Wolf does this. 
I can't wait to hear this.
Posted @ Sunday, December 13, 2009 6:42 PM by jcol
lol! I'm just happy to learn of this phenomenom of wolves over 200lbs fighting by swatting with their forepaws....which are, of course, more powerful than the cougar's too. And they're black belts as well, what with being able to do all those back flips during the scuffle. Yes, if all else fails the 200 plus pound canine would surely pull out their cell phones and send out for some type of ACME fighting product to help while strategizing during the brawl, but you better warn 'em Ken!--that stuff never works for Wile E! But then again, he's JUST a coyote. He doesnt possess the mystical powers of the Canadian and Alaskan Wolves, does he?
Posted @ Monday, December 14, 2009 9:12 AM by panther d
Just for the record Kenny: The cat's top speed is in the 45 to 50 mph range. I know you read 35, but you're on the internet RIGHT NOW. Dig deeper.
Posted @ Monday, December 14, 2009 9:17 AM by panther d
Yeah, I'm afraid the only "back-flip" the wolf is gonna do is when the Cougar "Swats" him. 
And Kenny, Cats actually DO use the "swat" as a fighting technique. 
Seriously man, I'm not trying to dog you, no pun intended, canines do not "swat" or use "back-flips" while fighting. 
Take a look at the size of the fore-legs of both animals, think about how the Cougar uses his as opposed to the Wolf, and tell me how you think the Wolf's fore-legs are more powerfull.
Posted @ Monday, December 14, 2009 9:35 AM by jcol
I think Kenny is too into New Moon...
Posted @ Monday, December 14, 2009 2:10 PM by Katie
i have an actual fact about the grey wolf the truth is the wolfs forelegs are actually stronger because the wolf spends most off its life travelling and running well more than the cougar does. but the wolf definately doesnt backflip or slash mainly because its claws arent ment to be a defensive weapon its main tactic is in a pack the pack bites the cougar/animal's limbs with their powerful jaws and one delievers the fatal neck break manouever while the animal is down and injured.
Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 1:46 AM by Animate
but its hard to say who would win strange things happen in nature some things just turn out unexpected hell a little fuckin alvin and the chipmunks could enter the fight and fuck both the cougar and the wolf up.
Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 1:52 AM by Animate
You have an actual fact, huh? 
Where did you get this "actual" fact? 
The male Cougar has a huge territory that he patrols. His fore-legs are used not only to help bring down and hold prey sometimes as much as 5x it's own weight, but also to climb trees. 
The Wolf prefers to hunt on the flat-lands and clearings where it can utilize it's speed. The Cougar can and will hunt in and around all kinds of terrain, including mountains. 
Check out how thick the fore-legs are on the Cougar. They are much thicker, much more heavily muscled than the Wolf's. But hey, go ahead and post this "actual" fact of yours. 
Maybe I'm wrong.
Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 2:16 AM by jcol
wow. What we have is a lot of wolf people who really dont know much at all about the cat. So much of the info on them is extremely generalized because there's not a lot of extensive studying on them, which is why one has to look further. The cougar's home range can be up to 300 square miles, 50 of which the cats might travel in one night. They can kill with one blow to the head. They've been observed to routinely bring down prey SEVEN times their own weight. I wouldnt doubt that an alpha wolf, 170-180lbs and battle-tested, could take on a grown cougar if the cat's a transient--a couple of years old and still searching to establish his own territory. Cougars in this stage in life have a high mortality rate because in their roaming they find themselves in fully mature, established male cougar territories sometimes and the mature cat kills the transient. Against the fully mature, established cougar, I give the lone wolf no chance. I mean, the lone wolf doesnt fare well against the flock guardian breeds, great pyrenees, anatolian shepherd, akbash, kangol....these big mastiff/shepherd breeds earn their living as wolf slayers. If these domestic dogs can handle Big Bad(and they always do) then it's no problem for the big cats to take care of him.
Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 2:45 PM by panther d
there is a lot of cross breed favouritism going on here your ever a cat person or a dog person and most of these are opinions not fact they are complete fanboy bullshit. this is the wild we are talking about and the truth is no one no's what really would happen not what might happen or might not. the wild is a open place where many animals have there own characteristics not inherited by breed. fuck people stop making generalisatons about the cat being stronger and faster or the wolf being bigger and more powerful. 
because im not sure any of you would spend years on your ass observing cougar vs wolf fights. 
Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:46 PM by Wise Yoda
The only question I have, Wise Yoda, is why do you consider yourself "wise"? 
Because from reading your post, it's clear that you're most definitively NOT wise, but actually closer to "imbecile" status. 
"This is the wild we're talking about...." 
And what was your first clue, inspector? 
What is so hard about this? 
Why are some of you so confused about this exercise? 
Yoda, o wise Yoda, use the FORCE you idiot!!! 
Throw away all the varables. 
All the IFs, Ands, and Buts, and try to FOCUS on just the Cat and the Wolf. Throw away all that "fanboy" crap and take it for what it is; a one-on-one, winner take all, fight to the finish. 
Make a choice, and quit trying to convince everyone you're smarter than you actually are. 
'Cause it's not working.
Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:11 PM by jcol
lmao i just used the force... you know why? because you just completely agreed with me in your own way. that was my point to throw away the fanboy crap and eliminate the ifs ands and buts. 
wow looks like my jedi mind trick worked. 
lmao thanks for the agreeing with me
Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:22 PM by Wise Yoda
I think the force turned around and smacked you upside the head.... 
ok. I'll let you live in your own little world for now, but you still haven't made your choice. 
Give us your pick, then tell us why you think you're right. 
And don't give us any of this "nobody knows what will happen" shit. 
Get in the game and show some balls. 
Otherwise, what good are you?
Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:28 PM by jcol
grow some balls??? my balls have grown dont think yours have. 
and im giving you that nobody knows what will happen shit cause nobody does fucking know!!. 
for fucks sake dude i dont take sides im not placing bets natures nature wilds the wild fuck its not up to us humans to state what might happen or what might not because we dont fucking know!!!! 
Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:11 PM by Wise Yoda
Well what the fuck are ya doin' here? 
Giving us the benefit of your fuckin' wisdom? 
You come here, spouting all kinds of fucking useless platitudes, that EVERYONE and thier fuckin' brother, or whatever the fuck else relative you want to name, ALREADY KNOWS. 
If I know one thing, it's this; 
I can out-fuck you, kid. 
So let's act like adults and again, I ask you;  
can you make a choice?  
That's what everyone else has done. 
I can only see 3 reasons why you can't do it; 
1, you don't have a clue as to how the fight might end, in which case I would suggest you go educate yourself on the two combatants. 
2, you HAVE made a choice, you're just too much of a coward to reveal what it is. Gosh o wise Yoda, nobody is gonna laugh at you over your choice. Well, at least not too much. 
3, you're too stupid to understand what this premise is all about. 
Until you can convince me otherwise, I'm going with #3. 
Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:35 PM by jcol
lol i just fully pissed you off. 
and u cant outfuck the yoda. 
u got jedi served
Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:46 PM by Wise Yoda
Give it up Yoda. 
The only force in you, is me. 
Now I know what those big ears are for. 
Since you got nothin' else, I'll send you on your way. 
I will say that I'm a bit dissapointed though. I thought you had more game than this. 
I guess they just don't make Yodas' like they used to. 
maybe if you dyed yourself blue, you can find work as a smurf, or something.
Posted @ Tuesday, December 15, 2009 10:15 PM by jcol
No one 'no's', huh wise yoda? It's 'KNOWS' genius. Researchers KNOW from their observations that when facing a pack the cat better get away or he's dead and that when facing an individual, the wolf is dead. Thats the official word, it doesnt matter who's a cat fanatic or who's a dog lover.
Posted @ Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:37 AM by panther d
lmao the only force in you is me??? fail!!! 
and ive worked as a smurf love the day job not the night job. 
and no they dont make Yodas like they used to but they still make dipshits like you the same. 
soz Jcol but you just sucked Yodas great bit green dick. 
this is the last im posting so Yoda says a big fuck you and goodbye.
Posted @ Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:46 PM by Wise Yoda
And so the great and powerfull "Wise" Yoda turns tail, and runs away as fast as his little legs can carry him, showing his true colors; 
the streak of yellow down his back, and his red ass, where he just got kicked. 
You're a disgrace to yodas' everywhere, kid. 
Go ahead, RUN, you coward. And don't show your face around here again.
Posted @ Wednesday, December 16, 2009 6:16 PM by jcol
oh your a fun person to play with.
Posted @ Wednesday, December 16, 2009 6:19 PM by Wise Yoda
You said that was your last post! 
You lied to me? 
Has the "wise" Yoda gone over to the dark side????? 
Say it ain't so, Yoda!!!! 
Ok, look kid. Let's stop hurling insults at each other, it proves nothing. Yeah it's fun, but I'm too old to play internet tough guy. 
I ask you again, for the last time, get off the fence and give us an answer; Wolf or Cougar, who wins? 
C'mon, Yoda. Be brave, Be bold. 
Posted @ Wednesday, December 16, 2009 6:29 PM by jcol
you dont no the power of the darkside of the force luke!!!! 
Posted @ Wednesday, December 16, 2009 6:44 PM by Wise DarthVader
No contest. The wolf is a pack hunter. The puma is a loner. One-on-one, in a face-off, big cat eats smaller dog.  
The puma has several advantages. Strong arms and sharp claws. More weight, more strength, and more speed. The big cat is a cunning killer. 
The wolf is thinking, "where are all of my friends at when I need them"?
Posted @ Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:25 AM by Toby Ross
My friend showed this too me, and this is one gay arguement. Don't you rednecks have anything else....manly to do?  
But my own opinion, I find wolves like motorcycles. Fast, sleek, and can zip on by traffic if it's a smooth runway. 
Couger(or any other big cats) are like 4wd trucks/suvs. big, muscle, kicks ass. If you have head on impact with the two...who will live and who will die?  
Anyone who says motorcycle, you're a faggot and I hope to see you on the road so I can run you over...
Posted @ Friday, December 18, 2009 11:57 AM by JDMan
Motorcycles and 4WD trucks? 
Hmmmmm...who is the redneck?
Posted @ Friday, December 18, 2009 12:57 PM by Toby Ross
JD man, you sound like an ignorant, backwoods hick.
Posted @ Friday, December 18, 2009 8:02 PM by jen
~Thank you Jen~
Posted @ Saturday, December 19, 2009 5:33 AM by Toby Ross
I kinda like how jdman explained it.  
But he needs to go back to /o/
Posted @ Saturday, December 19, 2009 5:40 PM by Katie
Whats up with all the ignorant statements as of late, I'm gone for a couple of weeks and come back to read this garbage. Listen guys the cougar has the upper hand, I'm sure we all can agree. Size, agility, claws, blah blah blah. There is a saying that every dog has its day. All it takes is one bite to any part of the cougar by the wolfs 1,000 lbs of psi jaws and the cougar is history. So Jcol if I was a betting man my money would go to the cougar, but I wouldn't be surprised if the wolf pulled out the upset. Jcol FYI a guy I knew tried to sneak in his girlfriends house and their 90lb rottweiler came running at him at full force hitting him in his chest, needless to say the kid ended up with two broken ribs. Imagine what a 160 lb wolf could do in the same scenario. I'm not saying that the wolf uses that as a primary attack because they are obviously not trained guard dogs, but who knows.
Posted @ Sunday, December 20, 2009 12:38 AM by ARR
ARR, what is it about the Cougar that makes you think it will give up as soon as the Wolf gets ONE bite in? 
Do you think the Cougar will just instantly die?  
BTW, what relevance does a 90lb dog throwing a body-block at a guy have in this conversation? 
Do you think the Cat is just gonna stand there and let the Wolf roll right over him? Why is it that you think the Wolf is gonna have the intelligence of Einstein, and the Cougar will act like Jethro Bodean? 
A mother Cougar will try to drive away a threat to her cubs, but male Cougars have one instinct; KILL. My opinion is that the Wolf is not quick enough to get in that "killing" bite on a healthy, full-grown Cougar. The Wolf is not strong enough to escape once the Cougar gets him down. 
Think about how strong the Cougar is. The Wolf simply CANNOT match it in strength, or quickness. It cannot match the Cat in weoponry. 
Yeah, anything can happen, but the truth of the matter is that the odds are against the Wolf, and taking the Wolf in this fight is a sucker's bet. It's one thing to be loyal or sentimental over the Dog, but let's not get crazy stupid about it. 
To those who take the Wolf, THIS is how Las Vegas was built.
Posted @ Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:11 AM by jcol
Face-off, one on one, mountain lion vs timber wolf... The cougar wins every time. Not sometimes! Every time.
Posted @ Sunday, December 20, 2009 4:43 AM by Toby Ross
the wolf can't and will never kill a large cougar even if the cougar is old or sick or young.
Posted @ Friday, January 01, 2010 12:06 AM by man knee
I love wolves: Timber wolves, arctic wolves. Beautiful and with an undefinable power that makes me want to be friends with one -- or be one. That being said, if I'm being objective with my basic knowledge of wildlife, the mountain lion would kick the living shit out of a wolf. Sorry.
Posted @ Friday, January 01, 2010 12:56 PM by Mark in Iowa
Cougar is a lone hunter,so it has a stronger bite,strength,speed and agility on it's side but the Wolf,being a team player,has jaws that are not designed for instant killing but to hold on tight.Also,the Cougar has claws and longer teeth than the Wolf, which decides the outcome.Cougar wins the fight 7/10 times.
Posted @ Tuesday, January 05, 2010 4:24 AM by aravindlal
Both animals live in the same range, and yes, fights do occur. 
But neither animal is stupid. 
A fight avoided means no injuries, and an injured predator is in big trouble because it won't be able to hunt. No hunting = no food = starvation = DIE. 
Wolves often chase prey down, but would not investigate a cougar if it seemed assertive, bold and curious/aggresive. Which it would. 
Cougars wouldn't be so thick as to try and hunt a wolf. Fight outcomes rely on terrain as much as intelligence, weight, size (small isn't always a bad thing), agility, stamina, fur thickness, health, motive, determination, age and skill. The outcome of a fight like this is undeterminable, and the winner will almost always die of injuries in the aftermath.
Posted @ Saturday, January 09, 2010 3:38 PM by mouse
Posted @ Monday, January 11, 2010 10:15 AM by panther d
hmm. my opinion is, cougar. although i love dogs !  
i mean, both of these animals are fur friggin rocious.  
cougars are amazingly fast and obviously strong. they also have amazing reflexes. they are also much larger and heavier than wolves. 
wolves have a great amount of bravery, which can scare its opponent off. a gray wolf wouldnt go after a cougar for no reason, its too smart. they evaluate a situation and deal.  
but if its an alpha against a male cougar, cougars would sadly win.  
wolves usually make very obvious straight forward attacks. it could probably bite the cougar so badly that itd tear through meat and muscle. but the cougar will come back and bite the wolf someplace like the ass and pin it down and scratch and rip out its neck.  
Posted @ Saturday, January 16, 2010 6:09 AM by ace
the wolf is probably my favorite animal i know of! i dont know who would win though, im gonna go with wolf 
,smarter, stronger neck muscles, braver and more competitive. wolf =] 
Posted @ Thursday, January 21, 2010 7:25 PM by ...
One on One cougar wins, wolves are pack hunters/fighters. I want to see these fights on WAFC: 
cougar vs leopard 
Spotted hyena vs alpha male wolf
Posted @ Friday, January 22, 2010 7:49 PM by mr animalia
fights do happen and for the most part the cat will loose, as do brown bears. when was the last time you saw a lone wolf in the woods? the wolf is a pack hunter and a cat has no chance against a pack of wolves. one on one the cat as long as it has good health and not to young or old will win.
Posted @ Friday, January 22, 2010 8:00 PM by patrck long as their healthy? You're somewhat retarded patrck. Watched on animal planets, Hyenas tried to get an easy meal of lion meat. Lions were weak, starving, and old. The lions still wooped them hyena's ass!! Soooo~!!! Cougars have the same advantage. They don't have to be healthy to win. The muscle and will to live is still useful.
Posted @ Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:29 AM by Katie
cats are pond for pound better i mean if a cheetah tried it could wup a hyenas ass let alone a wolf and a snow leopard could wup a wolf ass to 
obviously leopards lions tigers jaguars kill wolfs no problem and a cougar is the winner bc 7 ferious cats own all
Posted @ Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:18 PM by pavy
it would be a close fight. the wolf is my fav out of the two but the couger is able to take down prey 3x its size witch a wolf cannot at least alone he cant but the pack of the wolvs is able to kill alot but the couger would come out with a victory
Posted @ Monday, January 25, 2010 1:13 PM by assy nigga
@pavy a freakin cheetah cant kill a hyena haha why do you think they run away wen hyena comes up to them same goes for the leapord lol a hyena could crush both of them with its great bite force over a 1000 lbs why do you think hyena are the only comp with lion sure a lion could easily kill a hyena one on one but there have been cases wen a pack has killed and ate a lion last time i checked cheetah and leapord dont do that they run away wen they see a lion hyena are the only predators challange them wen they see a lion yes all the big cats could kill a wolf but def not the cheetah its to small for the wolf the wolfs bite is way stronger than a cheetah they only weaigh like 130 lbs wolfs weigh like 180-190 lbs easy kill for wolf i mean even a pitbull or rott culd kill a cheetah and for snow leapord lol u got to be kidding its so small a freakin bull dog culd kill it lol
Posted @ Monday, January 25, 2010 1:24 PM by assy nigga
@assy nigga ok get some facts straight even if leopard was getting attacked by a wolf it can easily climb a tree to avoid it n attack from there. then a cheetah has the speed to run away and sneak attack with its speed. n o btw the reason the leopard and cheetah tend to run away is bc they use all there energy into getting the kill they dont have alot left to fight y waste attacking and getting injured? cats r smart jackass jackals n hyenas as well as dogs such as wolves r not smart
Posted @ Monday, January 25, 2010 4:09 PM by pavy
@pavy well if they were so baddasss they would be certinto fight the lion or hyena your the one who said that a cheetah and leapord could kill a hyna if it could kill it it would defend its food not run away leaving the food there!! there fucking bitches they run away lion have no comp with them and yes they dont want to get injuerd but they fuckin leave the food they dont even try to defend it dumb fuck a hyeana could easily kill a leapord or cheetah and speed is nothing the cheetah use its speed to catch prey not to use in combat and it depends wat evorment there in if its in africa plains fightin the africa plains then it atill has no chance cheetahs dont fuckin use stealth in combat they only fuckin do it to catch prey and i didnt say a wolf couldkill a leapord i said a leapord could kill a wolf dumbfuck but a wolf still has a chance and what makes hyena s and all the k9 family dumb jus cuz you are a cat lover doesnt make them dumb!! haha dont get mad cuz you know im right!! go up to any animal expert in africa 100% of them would say a cheeetah or leapord does not stand a chance or a cheetah does not stand a chance agaist a wolf!! get ur facts straight dumb ass!!
Posted @ Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:06 AM by assy nigga
idk why pepole are compain lion and hyenas to wolf and cougare i mean theres a difence between a 500 lb lion and 170 lb hyena cougers arent that much bigger than a wolf i know a couger could kill a wolf but there not much diferent cougers 200 lbs wolf 180 lbs
Posted @ Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:20 AM by assy nigga
@assy nigga go fuck urself u dont no fuck about this not to sound racist but name 1 black guy on big cat diary
Posted @ Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:40 PM by pavy
hahaha im not black and the only reason you told me to fuck myself is cuz u know im right!! theres alot of black guys on big cat diary like the masi tribe haha im right again!! dumb ass kid you prob dont even know what im talik about!! p.s i hate house cats there so lazy!! doogs are way better!! so u go fuck your self hahaha
Posted @ Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:14 PM by assy nigga
the ignorance level took a turn for the worst here, damn. Pavy, since when are canines not smart??!! And what does being black have to do with whether or not a person knows about animals?!?
Posted @ Thursday, January 28, 2010 8:59 AM by panther d
wolfs can too bite through cars! and i think that a big wolf could bite the dummy old cooger to death cos coogers are stoopid and haves really ugly fur. Also wolfs are really cool looking and furocious .  
I vote cooger...oh damn it, i mean wolfs..
Posted @ Saturday, February 06, 2010 8:32 PM by Tootsie
wolf only defense is his bite on the other hand a cougar have bigger teeth and sharp claws which will tear the wolf apart and a cougar is more flexible then a wolf..cougar wins easily
Posted @ Monday, February 08, 2010 7:27 PM by pitbull
1+2=3. CD comes after AB. Yellow + blue=green. Water is wet. A cougar can kill a single wolf.
Posted @ Tuesday, February 09, 2010 6:28 AM by Toby Ross
This is no contest; A Cougar can easily kill a single wolf. 
Now leopard vs. Cougar would be intresting
Posted @ Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:02 PM by Zack
The cougar would probably win on a one on one fight, but why are you people actually making a big deal about this? 
If you believe that the cougar will win, and you have reasons to back it up, awesome. 
End of story. 
Who cares if someone disagrees with you. 
I mean, seriously, there's no reason to get riled up because someone busted your balls on a comment blog. 
Unless you're old, senile, and have no life.
Posted @ Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:35 AM by john
ok now you guys have the wolves wieght all wrong they can range from 150-200 pounds and a mountain lion is 200-280 pounds but that does not mean that the mountain lion. A grown male wolf has 1500 pounds of bite pressure and fight more ofen than the mountain lion so the if the wolf would get one bite on a mountain lion and use it 1500 pounds of bite pressure the mountain lion would be out for count
Posted @ Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:01 PM by kylar
not trying to be nerd or anything but i know alot about woves and mountain i mean i know a little much but any ways the wea spots on a mountain lion are the base of it tail, paws, neck,stomach, and nose and if a wolf could bite on any of those places with its 1500 bite pressure the mountain lion would die and the mountain has alot more weak spots than a wolf does and if the wolf can find one the weak spotsmountainlionisthe wolf has alot lot lot more fighting experience than mountain
Posted @ Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:32 PM by kylar
Guys your basing all of your facts on one video. If you actually go hunting for them, you will find videos of wolvs mauling cougars. im not saying the wolf is better, but some of you belive that the cougar is better because it can survive on its own and wolves cant. However the reason why wolves live in a pack is because they like it. things are easier. dont we all want to find the easier way in life. cougars live on there own because they all think of themselves as equals and dont want to pledge loyalty to other cats. with out a leader there is no way to have an organized group. You guys think that because the cougar is bigger means that it will win. But some times bull dogs can take on snt. berdards and win. size does not matter. think logically.
Posted @ Friday, August 27, 2010 3:00 PM by
Well, from my standpoint, and I like to think it's a logical one, the Cougar is Bigger, stronger, faster, more agile and has more weapons. Given all of those advantages, I'm not sure the Wolf has ANY chance at all, although I guess anything can happen. 
If you found a Cougar mauled by a Wolf, I'd bet it was by more than one Wolf. Cougars don't travel in packs because they are solitary animals. They don't think of themselves as all equals, they just don't like the competition, and that's how they see each other, and other predators. 
The Cougar is just too much for the Wolf to handle.
Posted @ Friday, August 27, 2010 3:17 PM by Jayson
Come on guys....There is no what ifs, there is no chances or luck. Its just a One on one fight like jcol said no lucky chances or pack in the deal its just one wolf, one cougar nothing else! Presented with the facts at hand, no the cougar would problely win more likely in a 1v1 battle with a gray wolf, it doesn't take math to figure that out. This is a simple battle no magical chance involved, it is pure opinion, you can say whichever you want wins but the awnser should be pretty obvious. 
In a different situtation were there were multiple battles, the cougar wouldn't win every single time, thats base probablity, but this situtation isnt for chance or "What ifs" It is a 1v1 battle, nothing more. Cougar wins, its as simple as that. 
Yoda and ARR put up good valid points, but we are looking at a 1v1 battle, no packs were not considering an underbelly. Just a 1v1 battle, thats it. There doesn't need to be a mile long arguement about who wins, its either one wins. If you pick wins for cougar then fine, if you pick that the wolf wins then ok, thats what you believe, you can give back up information, but it shouldn't be any different situtation then the one presented now.
Posted @ Wednesday, September 08, 2010 7:25 PM by Logical
Cougar wins 7 times out of ten. I know the Cougar has a superior weapon set and if used effectively will almost always have the upper hand. I agree the Cougar has superior strength, speed, blah blah blah. I for one just resent the fact that some people think the Wolf doesnt have a chance in hell. Has anybody heard of punchers chance? I for one have no doubt that a Alpha Wolf on any given day can deliver the knock out punch that will destroy a cougar. But back to reality, because I and others have exhausted every theory/hypothetical and the only fact is that in the real wild. These two magnificent apex predators almost never ever encounter each other. Since they prefer different terrains. Hence (Mountain Lion) and (Timber Wolf). When they do they exhibit a mutual avoidance for one another. So Logical I know its fun to debate fantasy but the fact of the matter is that these animals live very different lifestyles. One is very social the other solitary. Therefore pure numbers is a sufficient deterrent for cougars and even grizzly bears to not mess with the feisty Wolves. But in the freak event that a Alpha Wolf is away from his pack and encounters a aggressive cougar. The cougar will most likely take it out, but I wouldnt be suprised if the Wolf said today is my fucking day cat!!!
Posted @ Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:11 PM by ARR
Cougar all day
Posted @ Friday, September 10, 2010 9:04 PM by dan
Then what would be the point of me saying "Will the cougar win all the time? No". I never ment for it say he can't win, I'm saying the wolf doesn't have much chance, but can he win. Yes. It maybe a different lifestyle, but as said. There is no solitary from eachother in this situtation, were just taking 2 animals and they will try to fight eachother. Theres no trying to avoid eachother, and taking in different lifestyles in this situtation, were saying that both are problely not going to back down. Its about as simple as that
Posted @ Sunday, September 12, 2010 2:13 PM by Logical
Who was it that said a Cheetah could beat a hyena? 
That's just stupid.
Posted @ Sunday, September 12, 2010 2:27 PM by Jayson
^^ I think that was Damon
Posted @ Sunday, September 12, 2010 6:26 PM by
Wolf. The end
Posted @ Friday, September 17, 2010 9:39 PM by Rainman715
Rainman, you mean the end of the Wolf, right? 
That's the only viable outcome. 
The Cougar will be hacking up little Wolf furballs for a week.
Posted @ Friday, September 17, 2010 9:51 PM by Jayson
If a lone wolf discovers a cougar with a fresh kill, and is hungry enough to fight for it, the cougar will likely kill the wolf. If a pack of wolves happen along, the best place for the cougar is up a tree.
Posted @ Sunday, September 19, 2010 4:51 AM by Toby
Wolves don't hunt alone, so that cougar is done for.
Posted @ Wednesday, October 06, 2010 5:35 PM by billy
billy, try to keep up, son. 
The premise is ONE Cougar, against ONE Wolf. 
Don't try to introduce a wolf PACK into the picture. 
It's one-on-one. 
Now try it again. 
Posted @ Wednesday, October 06, 2010 5:49 PM by Jayson
1 vs 1 never gonna happen but ummm definately cougar because they are better equipped. just being realistic
Posted @ Monday, October 11, 2010 10:29 PM by Dudey
Your all wrong, in the wild the wolf would tree the lion and it would be over. Then the wolf would get bored and wander off. Then the lion would leave. Neither would go for the kill because neither would want to be killed. However there could be other possibilities. If you put a big mountain lion 200-240 lbs and a large wolf 180 lbs in a glass cage. They would probably kill each other with wounds and blood loss. The lion would claw the wolf and it would bleed to death and the wolf would bit the cat and break a leg or other part leaving each incapible of surving in the wild.
Posted @ Tuesday, October 26, 2010 10:35 PM by Paul
Yeah, right. 
The Wolf is gonna tree the Cougar. 
Like THAT is gonna happen. 
More likely the Wolf would actually learn how to climb a tree to get AWAY from the Cougar. 
Posted @ Tuesday, October 26, 2010 11:06 PM by Jayson
How do you hunt Mountain lions? With Dogs, they get the scent and chase the cat and tree it. Then you go and shoot it.  
Posted @ Tuesday, October 26, 2010 11:41 PM by Paul
Ok. Let me make this REAL SIMPLE for you, since you don't seem to be able to grasp the concept. 
Take a Gray Wolf and put him in a big cage. 
Now go get a Mountain Lion. 
Put him in the SAME CAGE. 
They start to fight. 
Now the question is, who comes out on top? 
Who wins this fight? 
I can't make it any more simple than that.
Posted @ Wednesday, October 27, 2010 3:41 AM by Jayson
Wolves are so much better than cougars i now they are killers but they are so cute they wuldent halve to kill things if they had peaple to look after them love them and FEED THEM! they wuld be inisant they half to get in packs to keep each other company and fight for there lives and food riscing beeing kicked by deer or getting diseeses or baldy ingurd. the poor thigs are so lonly they dont halv anybody to love them and keep them company they wuld not kill or hafe to kill if they had us please help keep them alive! look into there eyes see how sad and lonly they look .i vote wolf . as you can see i am a wolf lover i do not meen to defend any one or caus problembs cats are cute to as i halve a cat tabby called holly but a really badly want a wolf hybrid!Alannahxxx 
please dont take it as a defence!
Posted @ Friday, November 05, 2010 1:08 PM by Alannah
that video is not real a wolf owns
Posted @ Tuesday, November 09, 2010 6:45 PM by barton
FACE AND GAY! everyone knows that a bear would win this
Posted @ Wednesday, November 10, 2010 12:15 PM by MR ANIMAL MAN
FAKE AND GAY!!everyone knows a T-rex would win competition after the bear eats them both, the t-rex would kill the bear!
Posted @ Wednesday, November 10, 2010 12:18 PM by MR AMNIMAL MAN!
Why not the Irish Red Setter? I've watched this old Disney movie called, "Big Red", Red fought the mountain lion while protecting his owner near the end of the movie.
Posted @ Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:43 PM by Joshua Reppert
Or how about the yellow Lab fighting a wolf? I've also saw this other movie called,"Far from Home: The Adventures of Yellow Dog".
Posted @ Wednesday, November 10, 2010 2:44 PM by Joshua Reppert
Did u guys even see the ending picture? Seriously. 
First of all, WOLVES DO BACK AWAY FROM FIGHTS! Second of all, sure the Cougar is bigger but it usually just attacks while wolves attack with strategy because they are smart. Nothing against cougars since I love both cougars and wolves but wolves are smarter than cougars, I mean wolves were bred into dogs and dogs are so smart, so wolves are obviously smart too. 
About the thing I said about the ending picture, well was that supposed to be a conclusion???? How does that even prove that the cougar won? The wolf was still growling and moving and trying to get up! Anything could happen after that! Video is horrible and whoever made this little page knows nothing about wolves!
Posted @ Thursday, November 11, 2010 2:53 PM by Husky_Wolf_Lover
Well, I think the Video was staged. 
A wolf would never attack the fore-legs of the Cougar. They seemed to be play fighting, as if they had been raised together in captivity. 
In any event, Husky_Wolf_Lover, IF the Wolf ever did find itself in that position, the fight would be over. While not an outright killing bite, it would end up that way, because the Wolf would not be strong enough to break free. 
A full-grown Cougar, in that position, would be able to easily hold down a wolf. 
Game over.
Posted @ Thursday, November 11, 2010 8:40 PM by Jayson
Who is the ultimate terrestrial carnivore? Is it the lion, the tiger, or the brown bear?
Posted @ Saturday, November 20, 2010 8:40 AM by BrotherBear
Actually wolves are pretty tough. I've seen a wolf get knocked over by a bear and almost killed by it yet it got away, so even though the cougar is pretty tough you can't be sure that the cougar would win, the wolf could win too.
Posted @ Saturday, November 20, 2010 9:23 AM by Husky_Wolf_Lover
The wolf is a pack hunter. After millions of years of being a team player, one-on-one the wolf would lose 9 out of 10 fights with the cougar. The wolf likely has a slight edge in bite-force and intelligence. The cougar is likely over-all stronger and has those meat-hook claws.  
Who is the ultimate terrestrial carnivore? Go to:  
Posted @ Sunday, November 21, 2010 6:12 AM by BrotherBear
True, the cougar has more means of attacking because of his two weapons while the wolf only has one weapon. But the wolf still has a chance of winning so all you people who say that "Cougar is so strong the wolf doesn't have a chance retards" are wrong, no matter how slight the chance is, ITS STILL A CHANCE! And this is where you get to "what if" all the chances like "what if the cougar suddenly has a heart attack and dies" so thats not likely, it could still happen. When it comes to the wild, you can't predict what will happen and say that your 100% right because its "logical" or whatever garbage you decide to use as "proof", the wild does not listen to your "logic" no matter how smart you think you are.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:35 PM by Husky_Wolf_Lover
These animal face-off sites are not about the one in a million what-ifs. This is about who has the more likely chance / the better odds, if a young healthy adult male wolf fights a young healthy adult male cougar in a face-off. 
Best chance - cougar.
Posted @ Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:31 PM by BrotherBear
LION vs TIGER vs BROWN BEAR for the title of Ultimate Terrestrial Carnivore at:
Posted @ Tuesday, November 23, 2010 3:52 PM by BrotherBear
Can a Timber Wolf defeat a Spotted Hyena?
Posted @ Thursday, November 25, 2010 10:34 AM by BrotherBear
I love articles like this because most people writing have 0 education on the matter. Fact when wolves were reintroduced in Yellowstone cougars were one of the many predators that were forced out. Wolves are pack animals and nothing in North America is as powerful as a pack of wolves. The grizzly bear will not be killed by the wolve but there young will. Full grown cougars are not killed by the pack but they will be run off kills and young will be killed. You don't have to kill the big and strong to win the territorial battle. Wolves as a pack are only second to the human PACK.
Posted @ Thursday, November 25, 2010 9:52 PM by the real deal
In Siberia, the tiger will remove every wolf within it's claimed territory. Those that do not flee, are killed.  
Let's play "What If". What if all of earth's creatures lived on one vast landmass. Which would be the dominant pack hunter, the wolf or the spotted hyena?  
The winner would take second place to the lion, who is the ultimate pack hunter. But, who would become the ultimate terrestrial carnivore?  
Posted @ Friday, November 26, 2010 4:05 AM by BrownBear
Real deal, apparently you're not "educated" enough to understand the premise of the "article", because it's simply a match-up between two predators, The Cougar and the Gray Wolf. 
It's not about what would happen if the Cougar came upon a Wolf pack, and yes, most of us already know the dynamics of wildlife in Yellowstone Park. 
So, now that you UNDERSTAND how the game works, tell us who comes out on top in a head-to-head battle, the Cougar, or the Wolf?
Posted @ Friday, November 26, 2010 8:22 AM by Jayson
BrownBear, the most successful pack hunter in Africa, is the African Wild Dog. Small in size, they are relentless, and make in numbers, what they lack in size.
Posted @ Friday, November 26, 2010 8:32 AM by Jayson
Jayson. This is NOT about the most successful hunter. This site is about ANIMAL FACE-OFF.  
Could a pack of 20 wild dogs take a carcass from a pride of 20 lions? NO.
Posted @ Sunday, November 28, 2010 2:03 PM by BrotherBear
Posted @ Monday, November 29, 2010 1:16 PM by BrotherBear
Mountain lion for sure.
Posted @ Thursday, December 02, 2010 4:20 AM by Sibthetiget
Mainly what think gives the cougar the advantage over the wolf is that it has those sharp claws to rip the wolf apart and that its slightly heavier. However, they are not faster than gray wolves on average, they either have nearly the same speed or the gray wolf is faster. I should also note that gray wolves have stronger bites than cougars and are excellent hunters and fighters as well so if both of them were of the same weight and size and if the cougar didn't have those close then I think this fight could go either way.
Posted @ Saturday, December 18, 2010 1:35 AM by keyz
About the what if thing I said before, I didn't mean that the website was about what-ifs. Its just that things could happen and so the point is that since the video didn't actually show the killing of either combatants, you have no idea what happened after the video.
Posted @ Saturday, December 18, 2010 12:46 PM by Husky_Wolf_Lover
I'd have to say the wolf would most likely lose 1 on 1 to a cougar. The cougar is quicker and is better built for a 1 on 1 battle. Although there are probably some cases where the wolf has a chance to take down the cougar. Wolves do scrap alot within the packs and a battle tested alpha may know the right technique to take down a cougar, although I'd have to say he'd need a little luck.  
But when it comes down to it in my mind, a wolf is a pack hunter. I don't see much of anything other than mankind that poses a threat to a pack of wolves. I think even 2 wolves would make the fight easily even, maybe even favoring the wolves. A third wolf would leave the cougar a very very slim chance and any more is certain death for a cougar and any other predator.
Posted @ Wednesday, December 29, 2010 10:19 PM by Direwolf
Well, I think the cougar would win for the obvious, constantly and monotonously repeated reasons. It's stronger, it's better armed, it has greater agility, etc. 
HOWEVER, it would NOT be a mismatch. The couger would NOT win easily. It would be a heck of a fight. I give it to the cougar, but only 60% of the time. The wolf's pack mentality means that it is more willing to take the fight to the cougar. The cougar only fights when cornered. When it is cornered, it fights like a demon. If, however, the wolf can survive the initial "chainsaw" outburst, the worn-out cougar would be in dire straits, having just burned through its stamina. Around 60% of the time, the non-grappling wolf will succumb to the cougar's "chainsaw" style attack. Around 40% of the time, the wolf's stamina and jaw power will win the day.
Posted @ Thursday, December 30, 2010 5:22 PM by MellivoraCapensis
WELL its likE this! 
when we talk ONE ON ONE probably cougar would win simply because of its HIGHER *sPEED* and *claw power* 
IN any circumtances speed really brings the tide of battle. Any powerful attack delivered by the wolf without a good tactic would be useless to the blinding speed and migthy claws of cougar! 
well lets say 60% for the normal cougar to win vs normal wolf! but still wolf have CHANCEs to win if it has a GOOD sTRATEGY and wELL PLANNED ATTACK^^ 
IN MOsT cases wolf are in packs or what we call as wOLVEs not to mention wOLVEs would win obviously!!  
1.)numbers are the best when we speak of battle  
*speed and good tactic 4 1 vs 1 
Posted @ Monday, January 03, 2011 12:54 AM by lolski^^
Exactly! I totally agree with u MellivoraCapensis!
Posted @ Wednesday, January 05, 2011 5:54 PM by Husky_Wolf_Lover
idiots wolves own cougars.who the hell told you cougar lovers that cougars are faster and stronger than wolves.wolves will definitely outrun a damn cougar and are much stronger. get your facts straight dumb ass cougar lovers. cougars are only bigger and have those fucking claws. the wolf surpasses the cougar in every way you dumb fuck cougar lovers. dogs own cats and always will 
Posted @ Friday, January 28, 2011 9:07 PM by jordan
Posted @ Sunday, January 30, 2011 9:00 AM by jordan
Cougar would win under normal circumstances because cats are stonger than dogs pound for pound particularly in quick bursts and have better killing technique. Cougars are also more agile so if wolf did win it would be down to luck or just a dumb cougar vs smart wolf.
Posted @ Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:56 PM by andrew
andrew you are so wrong. if you research a wolf and a cougar. the wolf is stronger. wolves have stronger bites and if they could use their hands like a cougarthey would be stronger still. you are confusin a cougar for a damn jaguar. i have studied wolves for a long time and wolves are better stronger and faster. all the cougar has is size and claws. i cant believe you people arent on mans best friends side. dogs rule cats drool
Posted @ Monday, January 31, 2011 5:02 PM by jordan
plus that video at the top of the page isnt the full fight. if you see the whole fight the wolf shakes off the cougar and continues to fight. it stops after that.
Posted @ Monday, January 31, 2011 5:04 PM by jordan
Hey Jordan, 
If a Wolf ever tried to fight a Cougar, the Cougar would be hacking up little Wolf fur balls for weeks. 
The Cougar is STRONGER, FASTER, QUICKER, has more weapons and is just as, if not moreso, SMARTER, than the Wolf. 
The Cougar is a TRUE predator and one of the most efficient killers in North America. 
The Wolf is a fine animal, but if it goes against a Cougar, it's just Cat Food. 
Sorry dude, but that's just the truth. 
Posted @ Monday, January 31, 2011 6:34 PM by Jayson
i think the wolf would call in it's pack members then they would ambush the cougar
Posted @ Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:35 PM by christian
Posted @ Sunday, February 06, 2011 12:45 AM by jordan
I say it will be a draw, There are a few reasons for that, Lets say the fight happens in a shallow water , Gray wolf wins, because in shallow water both animals have limited movements. The cougar cannot freely use its claws like how it does in land. Bcos the cougar need to focus on stabilising itself when being attacked by the wolf, The cougars weight will reduce the cats grip in thwe water and can cause the cougar to fall easily, the gray wolf has no problem as the wolf is much lighter and there are wolfs known to run and be more agile in water compared to other animals including the cougar, the gray can win bcos cougar cannot us its claw and the cat must focus on using its jaw,and the cat cannot move fast in water, The wolf might easily kill the cougar. Lets say the fight happen on the muddy area, Still the gray wolf wins, bcos the cougar cannot freely use its claw as the place is muddy and slippery, the wolfs paw is known to have a greater grip than most of the animals, the wolf rarely uses its claw thats why they say the wolf is the most addaptible animal , while the cougar only uses its claw and when its time to kill then it uses the jaw, so at muddy area the cougar will face problem using its claws for attacking and gripping as it must uses its claws to balance its heavy body on the slippery area. so i say the wolf wins since the wolf is lighter and do not have to worry about losing grip like the cougar. But in a normal area like mountain or a dry land, the cougarwins bcos the big cat can freely uses its claw and big body to defeat the gray wolf. Overall, i say the fight is a draw depends on where the fight happens
Posted @ Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:48 AM by Wolverine boy
thank you wolverine boy
Posted @ Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM by jordan
i would place a million dollar bet the wolf would win... yes the cat has claws but so does my sister and that dont help her when it come to someone that can actually fight... the first thing a cougar does is jerks out its claws and runs in for a bite it only claws after it misses i believe because of the wolfs faster reflexes there better at dodging and they have a way stronger bite force which is the real weapon here. ive never seen a wolf and cougar fight but i have seen wolf on wolf many times, and mountain lion on mountain lion, and yes they do fight there on instinct u just gotta make sure there pissed off at each other which happens vary quickly if they havent met and there already fully grown, the wolf fights look so much more dangerous and faster if they each got in one bite a piece the wolfs bite would do so much more damage..
Posted @ Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:48 PM by t-rex
T-Rex,you're seriously comparing your sister's nails to the claws of a 185lb Cougar? 
The Cougar's reflexes are WAY faster than a Wolf. As a solitary, ambush hunter, the Cougars body is like a coil of solid muscle. It captures prey with a short, extremely quick burst of speed. 
A wolf would not be able to avoid that charge. Once the Cougar engages the Wolf, the Cat's superior strength and weaponry will win the fight.
Posted @ Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:02 PM by Jayson
Ok, wolverine boy, I'll bite; 
Where did you get the idea that Wolves run in water? 
How is it that they'll be able to get traction on slippery rocks, where the Cougar wouldn't? 
Where are you getting this infomation? 
And what's with putting the scenario in shallow water? 
Why not put it in outer-space? 
Or in the middle of Times Square? 
Or a phone booth? 
Why is it that some of you people have to put in qualifiers just to try and give the Wolf an edge? 
Put the two of them in an empty field, and let them go at it. When it's broke down to something that simple, and realistic, the Cougar wins. 
Posted @ Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:16 PM by Jayson
Hey man listen , lion vs tiger, if in land lion may win , in water tiger wins same case , and let me ask you a question, what makes you think cougar can win, i saw a video posted in youtube, about a pack of wolf hunting face to face a bison in groups , the wolfs smartly isolated a bison from its group and one of them do some wierd takedown, pulling the bison down , you can see that in animal face off video in you tube , just click wolf vs cougar , and as for the mud part in India, a simple indian wolf mostly kills its prey at muddy area, not just that, in Siberia, there are Grey wolf that hunts and kills preys like deers and moose at muddy area, bcos the the prey with hoofs cannot run fast in those areas,bcos of the hoofs may easily slip, all can get from animal planet and nat geo wild, and for you information, cougars ambush its prey like a chicken , not kill by face to face like wolf, there is a video in youtube of gray wolf vs wolverine, the wolf was bluddy injured but still it won, the wolf have been fighting for years in its pack ,the cougar only ambushes its prey from behind, like all cats, In siberia records of tigers killing bear, they said the tiger kill the bear by ambush, no record said tiger kill bear by face to face, the cougar has less fights then wolf, the gray wolf has faced many animals than the cougar , you think the cougar can still win, the video showed cougar killing the wolf, if the cougar attack the wolf first like how the wolf attack the cougar, the wolf may kill the cougar, that video showed an omega wolf, even a Bulldog can kill an Omega wolf. Only a tiger is great in water , all cats hate water and your idiot cat reflex wont work in water , wolf is bold and brave not like cougar ambush from behind,
Posted @ Friday, February 18, 2011 6:35 AM by wolverine boy
i honestly believe a wolf will win someone needs to find a way to get this footage... i really think what would happen is the wolf bug the cougar the cougar would try to claw but keep missing the wolf would continue to annoy it untill the cougar left.. but if you stuck them in a 12x12 area with walls and no bushes i would the wolf would bite before the cat got in enough clawing to get the job done plus dont wolfs usually pack around a 2 inch fur coat that would have screw up the cougars clawing. i do have a good idea on this because ive seen alot of banned video of them fighting just not each other... 
not trying to make a point with this but would you rather be clawed across the your side or bit on the neck by a wolf...
Posted @ Friday, February 18, 2011 6:11 PM by t-rex
fix-not trying to make a point with this but would you rather be clawed across the your side by a cougar or bit on the neck by a wolf???
Posted @ Friday, February 18, 2011 6:30 PM by t-rex
hey t-rex i agree with you, they said about the cougars god like pounce it does not make sense, the cougar like all cats do the god like pounce only in an ambush . the cougar wont do its pounce in a face to face fight. as for the silly cat reflexes , the cougar only use it to escape or shake of any opponents like the bear which grab hold of the cougar not during killing or attacking,so the pouncing and reflexes is not going to come in this fight. The gray wolf is much lighter and agile than cougar so it can shake off the cougar.The cougar like all cats is going to paw swipe the wolf and when the wolf is dizzy it grips and go for a killer bite. The wolf fur can help cougar reduce the damage form the paw swipe. Honestly man i have seen wolf suffering heavy damages and brutal injuries in one fight and still the wolf win . The gray wolf is an experienced fighter not a ambusher like a cougar
Posted @ Friday, February 18, 2011 7:00 PM by wolverine boy
yea, i know what you mean. also i think people mistakes mountain lions for actual lions!
Posted @ Friday, February 18, 2011 7:13 PM by t-rex
Dogs are smarter than cats. we have to admit, it is proven by scientist. All cats ambush their prey from the back. Dogs fight like a fighter and kill its prey. If cats are so strong and smart why they ambush. Even humans find its easier to train a dog than a cat. Cats cant be train. Dogs can survive anywhere not cats . Only selected cats stay in each continents. For example tiger is in asia only. Lion is in africa and India only. Leopard is in asia and africa only. Jaguar is in north and south america only. Dogs are not like that.As for dogs Wolfs can be found in europe, asia, and north america. coyote can be found in most continents except africa . Wild dogs are everywhere. Whose smarter now. Mountain lion is lion just by name only.
Posted @ Monday, February 21, 2011 9:12 PM by wolverine boy
wolverine boy, the old saying is that you don't train a Cat, the Cat trains you. 
You can train a Cat to do SOME tricks, but they're not inclined to please the humans they live with. 
Dogs are pack animals. Domestically, they live to please their masters or, in the wild, the alpha male and female. Cats, with the exception of Lions, are solitary animals, and they are the ultimate land predators. They simply will not tolerate another Cat in their territory. 
I'm just wondering what exactly is your point? 
Dogs can be taught to do more tricks than Cats? What are you gonna do, teach the Wolf how to load and shoot a shotgun? 
Because that's about the only way the Wolf is going to beat the Cougar. Otherwise, the Wolf doesn't stand much of a chance.  
Posted @ Monday, February 21, 2011 11:02 PM by Jayson
Cougar is ambusher and has zero fighting experience. It never fight a prey before, all it does is ambush. What makes you think the cougar can win. Wolf dont simply attack other wolfs or animals pass their territory not like cougars. Cats never respect their kind.When a cougar see another cougar it attacks or give warnings, wolf are social animals almost like humans. Cougars are brainless coward who cant fight(no fighting experience) and prefer ambush by the back and claim itself a victor like all cats.
Posted @ Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:57 AM by wolverine boy
Cats are bad examples.Male lion is a lazy sadist who feeds on kills done by females. Male tiger abandons the female one after mating. Same goes the leopard.I think all cats do that.Dogs remain loyal to its mate and will raise its cub till they grow to adult . And do you think the wolf will lose this fight. Let me brief you Jayson. CAts fight the same no matter what type of cat is it. Cougar is going to paw swipe the wolf till the wolf is dizzy and the cougar will grip the dizzy wolf and kill it. But the gray wolf has large stamina and endurance. It can fight whole day. The wolf can withstand the paw swipe of a grizzly and tigers and can still survive. DO you think the paw swipe 
of a brainless cougar is going to weaken a wolf. And your cougar is low in stamina. It cant paw swipe for long. When its tired it will back off like a coward , the wolf will charge to your cougar and bite the cougar till it is injured and bite again for the kill.
Posted @ Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:07 AM by wolverine boy
Oh this is hilarious. I think wolverine boy is a troll, who likes cats but bashes on them to start an arguement, cause ANYBODY would know all he said was not true or not really explained properly. Just for the record, wolverine is not a wolf its part of the weasel family. Just gonna clear that. 
Soooo, all cat families swip to kill? It's so hard for them to eat in that case. Usually I see on the animal planet, lions, tigers, cheetas, etc, stalk their pray and get close enough t catch their prey. Oh and lions hunt in a group. :) Just like wolves! And As far as Ive seen, wolves ambush too. I dont see them stalking prey. they gather around to attack or just plain chase.  
This was just way too funny to ignore.
Posted @ Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:26 AM by Katie
wolverine boy, I have to agree with Katie. You're just too funny. 
As soon as I read that you think your Wolf could withstand the "paw swipe" of a Grizzly or a Tiger, THAT'S when I knew I was dealing with a either troll or an imbecile. 
Wolverine boy, in a fight between the Cougar and a Wolf, your Wolf will become lunch, in short order. 
If the Wolf is as smart as say it is, it had better use that superior stamina and run away from the Cougar, as fast as it can.
Posted @ Tuesday, February 22, 2011 10:49 AM by jayson
jayson i agree with wolverine boy. i have seen a wolf almost get knocked down by a bear and almost killed. yet the wolf got up and continued to stand its ground cause the bear was trying to kill its pups. eventually the pack came and chased off the bear. wolves will fight to the death if you threaten them. while a the cat will surrender if out matched. though i got to admit dogs are smarter than cats but a cat knows when to back down so there.
Posted @ Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:57 PM by jordan
why dont you go piss of a regular dog and picture it being 5 feet long and 3 feet tall and tell me if that doesnt scare you ok katie and jayson
Posted @ Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:01 PM by jordan
"so there"? 
Did you just end your little rant with, "so there"? 
What is this, the Kindergarten League? First you state the Wolf ALMOST got knocked down and killed by a bear, then you say the Wolf "got up" and stood his ground. 
Did the Bear knock the Wolf down or what? Wolves will NOT fight to the death. Most animals usually don't. When facing a superior opponent, the animal will eventually run away or try to escape, OR presents a submissive posture, signaling the end of the fight. Now in the course of the fight, one animal may receive mortal injuries, but that's just bad luck. 
You and wolverine boy act like you know a lot about the structure and behavior of a Wolf pack, but you haven't proved it yet. 
here's what you do, Jordan. 
Go find a Cat that weighs 180-200 lbs, and then try to piss it off. 
Don't worry about it scaring you a little bit. 
Worry that it doesn't out-right KILL you.
Posted @ Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:58 PM by jayson
heres the fact wolfs have a 1200 to 1600 psi bite force... cougars bite force is only 350 at most some house dogs have a greater bite force than that, cougar has 2 inch nails, wolf has 2 inch coat of fur... 
1.wolf gets in a bite cougars dead  
2.cougars are faster runner but have much slower reflexes 
3.face it, the cougar would be dead still trying to give the wolf a hair cut. 
i bet half the people in this form picture a cougar as a jaguar... because wolves are beast... cougars are just cats slightly to large to live in a house.
Posted @ Tuesday, February 22, 2011 10:00 PM by t-rex
I think I'd be more scared pissing off a couger. Men can atleast scar a wolf away. :/
Posted @ Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:33 PM by Katie
Katie and Jayson, i m a troll but your guys a bunch of gnomes who just think that cat can this fight. Grey wolf can survive tigers, lions- in India, grizzly bears and of course man.You think some shit face cougar can do the job of what top monsters fail to do(not including human). Wolves are fighting since the day they are born, The cougar is only fighting for mate. You think it can win, Cat reflexes only work for bigger opponent. And wolves dont backdown in any fight even with a grizzly bear.Wolves can run faster than cougar . In the cat family only the ceetah can run faster than the wolves. T-rex and jordan is damn right. I agree with both of them. I think katie and jayson should start listening to the real facts.
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 5:18 AM by wolverine boy
T-rex, i think your wrong, wolves have quite longer fur, that does not look like 2 inches
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 5:20 AM by wolverine boy
And Katie , stop clearing people on their name or nickname, Anyway your name Katie has nothing to do with a Cougar. Just trying to clear that.
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 5:50 AM by wolverine boy
Katie is my name. Just thought I'd be mature about it and not use some stupid name like yours. 
So if these "FACTS" are correct If I see a couger while doing my jog, I can ignore it when its not mating season? Good to know. 
And a wolf against lions and tigers?! Wow!! HAHAHA! Every animals learn to fight. And they fight everything that threatens it. 
And a gnome? No no no. You got it wrong. Trolls are people who are unknowledged or knows the truth but acts stupid and says the opposite of the truth. It's used on forums.
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 12:50 PM by Katie
ask your self these questions which would u rather run into in real life a wolf that can bites with 1200 psi or a cougar that wouldn't stand its ground, cougars never attack until your turned around. wolves attack and run after u face to face. wolves are 1 hit kills. cougars are 1 hit injury, theres a difference in one hit and 2 hits.. 
if u watch bear fights, cougar didn't have a chance and would quit backing up... when wolf vs bear, the wolf stood his ground and it was a good fight... pumas are just like house cats but alot bigger, wolves are kinda like a big version of a Siberian husky with super razer sharp teeth and a 1200-1600 psi bite force that means your not even safe in a truck for long
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 3:00 PM by t-rex
Good Lord! t-rex, do you realize how STUPID you sound? 
"Your not even safe in a truck for long"???!!? 
What is the Wolf gonna do, BITE THE TRUCK IN HALF?? 
With his SUPER RAZOR SHARP TEETH, no doubt! 
People are LAUGHING at you, t-rex!! 
A large Cougar will kill you a lot quicker than a large male Wolf. The Wolf has to run his prey to ground. Even when the pack has large prey cornered, it's still difficult for them to get in a bite to the throat. Other Wolves have to harass and attack the prey from behind, eventually creating an opening for the killing bite. 
The Cougar always goes for a killing bite. The Cougar will hit you much harder. It is a stealth hunter. It is an ambush killer. You usually won't even know the Cougar is there before he hits you. It is STRONGER than the Wolf. It is QUICKER than the Wolf. 
It can kill you in several different ways. A killing bite to the neck. Disembowel you with his claws. Even a single bite can cause even more damage than a Wolf's bite, if left untreated. As a member of the cat family, it's mouth is full of nasty bacteria which may cause death if not treated. 
Anybody with any common sense, anybody with a lick of ANY sense at all, would much rather face a Wolf, than a Cougar. 
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 7:20 PM by jayson
maybe super is over doing it, but if you do some research on a wolf you would come across alot like i have, and hell no your not safe in a truck, there was a guy(look it up you might find the video i seen it on discovery like 3 years ago) some man who lives in the mountains, his home security system caught 2 wolves breaking in to his dodge ram 1500 which was locked, and riped the insides to shreds and messed the door up pretty bad, (which came completely off)what if you was in that truck you wouldn't be hear right now... yes, a human would be smart enough top drive off in a situation like that... but i never said they had the keys lol... cougars are not bigger or stronger enough to give them an advantage only humans think that... and why the hell would anyone rather run into a wolf... they will automatically start start on you... when theirs a chance the cougar would never bother you. earthier one would kill you but their is a greater chance to live around a cougar... look at some cougar fighting video... do they ever when or even put up a good fight no because their just large pussies!!!
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 7:56 PM by t-rex
some humans or people*
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 8:00 PM by t-rex
So, two wolves broke into a locked Dodge ram 1500 truck, and you're saying they RIPPED the door completely off, with their teeth. 
It is common knowledge that Wolves are usually very timid around humans. They usually slink away when a human approaches. Everyone knows this. 
It's not just the "humans" who think the Cougar's superior size, strength and speed gives it an advantage over the Wolf, I'd bet a lot of money that the Wolf probably thinks that too. 
And that's why your Wolf just will not mess with the Cougar. It doesn't want to limp back to the pack, if it even survives the fight at all, and tell the rest of the Wolves that it got it's Wolf ass kicked by a "pussy".
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 8:18 PM by jayson
name me one fight you have seen with a cougar and tell me what happened... cause they lost.
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 9:02 PM by t-rex
also, i have failed to mention, didn't think it was important. but Ive seen both wolves and cougar in person... cougars at the zoo and wolves at the wild animal shelter. didn't pay much attention to the cougar when their was actual lions their too. but at the wild animal shelter i seen tamed wolves and wolf puppy (wasn't aloud near the pups for some reason i i managed to touch the top of one the adult males head, their were beast and i must admit i wasn't expecting them to be that big i was thinking more along the size of a husky, however the cougar didnt impress me at all maybe it was because of the elephants, lions, and tigers i got to see that made them look small but of my experience i would put my money on the wolf regardless of what everybody else did. i have looked everywhere to find a fight and every time i find them fight the wolf had its pack so it was not an even fight, and yes it the dodge ram 1500 story they started at the bottom pried the door upwards and riped it completely off with their teeth!
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 9:32 PM by t-rex
We don't have Cougars in my neighborhood, rex. 
The fact is, very few of us have ever seen a true fight, Wolf or Cougar, AS IT HAPPENS. 
Mostly we see just videos, most of whom have been doctored, edited, or stock footage of something that was set up. 
Both Cougars and Wolves will try to avoid a fight, if possible. 
Most disputes within the Wolf pack are settled with loud and noisey displays of agression and/or submission. Fighting to the point of injury or even death, only hurts the pack. 
Cougars are solitary animals. They can't afford to risk injury in a fight. A serious injury that impedes the ability to hunt for a length of time, is tantamount to a death sentence. 
Almost all animals will fight, in one form or another, for the right to mate. It's the same with defending territory, although usually not to the death. 
Almost ALL animals will give up food to a larger, stronger predator.  
The average Wolf is smaller than the Average Cougar. It is not as strong, it is not as quick. As a predator, it is inferior, and as a fighter, it is overmatched. 
It's just that simple.
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 9:54 PM by jayson
T-rex, I don't think the Cougar in the Zoo lost any sleep over the fact that you weren't impressed by it. 
If you had tried to pet it on the head like you did the Wolf, you probably would have been impressed then. 
After you picked your arm up off the ground, that is. 
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:00 PM by jayson
hey,katie, my name is my rights , you got nothing to discuss about them, i called you gnome, which i think are pests who support other pests(just joking,sorry if it hurts you) . And why you jog to where cougars live? Even ants bite human, so you saying the ant is a top predator, he he. Cougar attack on humans ARE ALL AMBUSHED ATTACKS. You get it, it wants food, no record of cougar attack human in face to face confrontation. Even if it did attack a human, is because it thinks we are threat, Of course, humans are an wild animals common enemy bcos we destroy their habitat and food. So dont bring in human . And jayson, even i can kill anything with a ambush attack from the back, if the cougar does a face to face fight, it will die out of starvation. Why you people dont get it, Cougar is an ambusher, it kill an enemy from the back, it is a sudden killer not a strong killer.
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:03 PM by wolverine boy
t-rex, most Cats ARE ambush killers. The Tiger, Leopard, Jaguar and Cougar. A lone Lion has to rely on stealth, too. 
Only the Cheetah, who uses speed, and the Lion, who normally hunts with the Pride, hunt differently. And even then, the Lions still has to get fairly close before they make their initial flush.  
THINK about what you're saying. The Cougar hunts all the big game that a pack of Wolves hunt, but it KILLS that same prey, by ITSELF. 
It uses stealth to get close. It uses a lightening quick launch to attack. 
It uses incredible strength and power to hold down prey usually 3, and sometimes up to 5 times it's own weight, long enough to kill it. That's a combination of skill, speed and strength that the Wolf just cannot match. 
Sorry rex, but your Wolf just doesn't measure up.
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 11:12 PM by jayson
You dont get it, why stealth, if you are so strong, Wolfs hunt in packs and alone, Even lone wolfs use ambush like cats, just that they rarely do it, bcos lone wolf have to compete with their rival pack, wolf have speed , like a cougar. Your cougar can do all the moves use said like the stealth, lightning speed and so on, those are when the cougar has a lock on its target. It uses its full stamina to do those, those moves are good, but it is like launching a missile, if the target moves the the missile will fail its ambush,same for the cougar, thats why it uses complete silent so the prey dont run, then with full stamina it launches its attack.The attack is powerfull. But it will greatly uses stamina and may cost the cat its life if the prey moves or dodges the attack.The wolf dont use stealth bcos they attack when they see a prey, cougar is not a territorial like wolf so it travels a lot, wolf only see preys in its territory.  
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:12 AM by wolverine boy
No, you don't get it. The Cougar has to use stealth because nature built it for short quick bursts of speed. Once it targets it's prey, it very seldom misses, because it's reflexes are too quick. Again, the Cougar uses his strength to hold the prey while it delivers the killing bite to the neck. Cougars are indeed territorial and will not tolerate other Cougars in the area, other than for mating purposes. 
Lone wolves can be succesful hunters, but it's rare for a lone wolf to bring down large prey. It has been done, but it's not normal. They are built to run their prey to ground. They are long distance runners. They are skilled at targeting the old, the young or the sick. 
For the Wolf, the hunt more often than not, turns into a marathon run.  
The Cougar doesn't have the luxury of help from a "pack". It survives on it's own.
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:44 AM by jayson
The cougar cant have a pack, of course males abandons females, they tend to attack each other,thats cougars nature, there intelligence is lower than wolfs who are social and has good communicative skills, the wolf may aim for the young or sick, the cougar can bring down its opponent by ambush, if the cougar uses the wolfs style, the cougar will also aim for the weak and sick. the cougar cannot run long , if it charge it will fail as it will lose stamina, paw swipe wont work, so no choice ambush, wolfs no ambusher, they hunt similar to the lion, even lions can miss, cougar cant do that, they rely on ambush, as i said their skill of silent can help them leap and grip the back of a moose and kill it, wolf is master strategist like a lion, they attack  
like a lion, stay hidden and strike when each member has an aim, wolf attack when the prey is in groups, cougar hunt its prey is alone ,resting or sleeping or grazing some grass , so dont brag about the cougar much, the prey dont know the cougar is there, the prey knows the wolf is there,this is just like the lion and tiger, ambusher vs group fighter, the wolf's fur can help resist a grizzly swipe, its only weakness is its claw, does not give much damage, only provides good grip
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 5:27 AM by wolverine boy
But jayson , i have to agree with that, wolf and cougar wont fight the moment the see each other , they just move away , wolfs only enemy is the grizzly bear
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 5:46 AM by wolverine boy
wolverine boy, if the Cougar can get past the thick winter pelt of the mule deer, and other prey of that size, it would have no problem with the Wolf. 
The Grizzly would have even less problem. You are forgetting the force with which these animals can strike. The Cougar's fore-quarters are extremely powerful. It would have no problem ripping the Wolf to shreds. 
The hunting strategy of the Wolf pack and the Lion pride is different in that the Lions simply don't have the stamina for a long drawn-out chase. They flush their prey towards a set-up ambush. Wolves are not built that way, that's not their nature. They single out their target, and they run it to ground, encircling it, finally dragging it down, usually by it's hind-quarters so that another member of the pack can get in a bite to the throat area. 
The Cougar is a more skilled hunter, period.
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 9:56 AM by jayson
Wolverine boy, I wouldn't call these animals enemies. They are simply competitors for the same supply of food. 
If you take the three animals, alone, on a scale, the Bear of course is king of the hill. The Cougar is second, as in most cases, it usually dominates a lone Wolf. The Wolf is third in line,as by itself, it can't match up against the Bear or Cougar. 
The Wolf usually has the advantage over both animals when it travels with the pack. Only the biggest of the Grizzlies will stand up to a pack of Wolves. In nature, the advantage of size and strength usually carries the day. 
This is why the Cougar wins a fight against the Wolf, because it has the edge in size, strength AND speed.
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 10:09 AM by Jayson
The Cougar does not use its paws to kill large animals. It uses them to latch on to its prey and then uses its bite to pierce the back of the preys neck. Killing their supply of oxygen thus killing it. Their claws rarely penetrate far enough a dears pelt to cause fatal damage. 
Most cats are afraid to attack anything head on. With the exception of lions who hunt in packs as well. Why do you think indigenous tribesmen from india use a mask on the back of their heads to thwart tiger ambushes while taking a stroll in a jungle. So a cougar never will fight a wolf head on unless it tries to prey on it. Which of course will never happen. 
Yes the cougar one on one with a lone wolf the cougar would win. Hands down. But people are forgetting that lone wolfs are outcasts from their pack the absolute weakest and smallest omega wolf. Now a large Alpha Wolf stands a better chance but will still lose 6 times out of ten. But don't say they can't win. Because there is evidence that it has been done. Maybe no video evidence, but plenty of forensics. 
About the wolves tearing off a vehicle door. That's actualy true. But the door wasn't shut properly. It was latched but not completely shut. Therfore leaving a gap open in the bottom of the door. The wolves used their amazing power to pry it open. The owner of the truck said he had left some food in it. Wolves have been also observed opening gates. These creatures are supremely intelligent.  
Wolves are timid of humans not because they are weak, but because for the last 100 years or so they have been hunted down to near extinction. They are just being smart. But when they feel threatened or are very hungry they will, there are documented cases of wolves attacking and killing humans.
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 11:51 AM by ARR
when we are talking about this fight im pretty sure its average alpha male wolf vs healthy average cougar... now for thous who say cougars will win like jayson continues to say, but he also continues to say they ambush... now is ambushing fighting? NO, its called jumping someone... thats not a fight... people do not call that fighting... if george jumped joe he did not fight joe! fighting is the joes got face to face and pushed george... then george kicks joes ass... wolf plus cougars neck=2 different pieces... its in algebra books from the 1500s lol... but for real! wolverine boy is right...
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 3:24 PM by t-rex
t-rex, no one is talking about the Cougar ambushing the Wolf. 
This is a straight up, one on one, face to face fight. The average healthy male Cougar will out-weigh the Wolf by about 25lbs. I don't know anyone, other than you and wolverine boy, who think the Wolf has a 50-50 chance. 
Wolverine boy thinks the Cougar is afraid to attack anything head on, and that's just ridiculous. It's a HUNTING TECHNIQUE. If you're hunting something that you know can outrun you, how would YOU attempt to catch them? A cougar has NO fear of a lone Wolf, and if that Wolf tries to take a kill away from the Cat, the Wolf will surely regret it. No one is saying the Cougar would win all the time, but it's surely more than 60-40. 
More like 80-20, if not 9 out of 10. The Cougar is just superior in all the ways that count in a conflict. 
Now, about that door these wolves supposedly pulled off. I'm just having a real hard time believing this. How old was this truck? 
What condition was it in? are there any pictures of it?  
I'm sorry, but it's just highly unlikely that it happened the way you want people to think it did, if it actually happened at all.
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 7:26 PM by Jayson
Well Jayson do you know that late model vehicles are made out of 1/4 inch thick sheet metal? Not very thick. It only takes about 50 lbs of pressure to bend it. Now take in account that the average wolf bite exceeds 450-500psi. You people saying 1600 psi are ridiculous quit kidding yourselves. 
Jayson Its obvious you are a Cougar fanboy so of course there is no way of you ever thinking that the wolf has a chance. I on the other hand am looking at this from a unbiased position. Just because you have size and speed does not make you a better fighter. You think Lebron James can take on a Navy Seal? Now I do agree that the cougar is superior in size, strength, agility, etc. I also agree that more times then not in a HYPOTHETICAL fight the Cougar should win more times then not. But neither you or I can know for certain. You can have fun all you want bragging about the cougar this and that. But in a fight to the death anything can happen. And yes I think a large Alpha Wolf with his back to the wall can come out the victor. Even if he doesnt the cougar wouldnt look very pretty. 
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 7:57 PM by ARR
After some research I found out that indeed the wolf's bite exceeds 1,000 psi not 450-500. But only 400-500 lbs of pressure. There is a difference between PSI pounds per sq inch and just plain pounds of pressure. Sorry my bad I wasnt thinking LOL!
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:22 PM by ARR
jayson, yes the wolf thing really happened, proof is out there but i dont feel like searching it... however i do remember the truck perfect because i had it recorded on dvr back when i had it. the truck was a dodge ram 1500 id say 05 or 06ish and was a V6 thats all i could tell of it. big truck tho and the wolve got in around 30 min... so it wasnt even an all night event and u jayson, are under estimating the wolf's bite by alot, cougar has like 1 third of them... if even that!
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 9:15 PM by t-rex
I love wolves. I think they are smart, elegant and really awsome at what they do. Cougars are just plain whatever to me. I would much rather see a wolf then a dumbass cat. But to be honest, a wolf will get it's ass handed to to it when messing with a cougar. It's common sense. dring a knofe to a gun fight, most likely, gun wins. You can say the knifer will twist and turn and maybe get a jab into the gunner, but face it. I hate cats. I love dogs. Hell, my dad hunts mountain lions and I could careless if they die out. But sadly a wolf can not win against a cougar. Being a muscular huge hunting machine, it's just simple.
Posted @ Thursday, February 24, 2011 11:11 PM by Cole
ARR, let's get something straight kid; I'm a realist. Anybody with any common sense would tell you that it is highly improbable that a Wolf could rip through the steel bolt that holds a truck door in place. It was a DODGE Ram 1500. These are heavy duty trucks. Show me some proof. Show me some pictures or some collaboration. All we got is some guy who says it happened. 
It's not JUST the size and speed that make the difference in a Cougar/Wolf fight. It's also the fact that the Cougar can bring more weapons to bear. The Cougar's body is more agile, able to move and twist in a way that the Wolf can't. The Cat can fight effectively, even with it's back on the ground. Put the Wolf's back on the ground, and he's Cat food. Your Lebron James/Navy Seal analogy is just plain stupid. An athlete against a man trained in the art of hand-to-hand combat? 
This whole exercise is about stating your opinion and then backing it up. I've done that, and all you can come back with is apparently, let's do a best of 3. or 5. or 7. Or however many fights you need until the law of averages say the Wolf will finally win one. 
Let's make it easy, ARR. 
TWO animals. 
ONE fight. 
One winner. 
No more varibles, no more 'what if's', and no more 'yeah, but's. 
Make your choice. 
I say the Cougar, for the reasons stated above and in previous posts. If you say differently, fine. 
Make your case, if you can. 
And that'll be the end of it.
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 12:07 AM by jayson
In your biased fanboy fantasy world of yours. Where you take the liberty to over simplify nature, then of course the cougar wins. In the real world where conditions, variables, settings,and what ifs exist it could go either way.  
Just remember you and I can argue from two shits till Sunday. At the end of the day it doesn't mean a damn thing. Its just opinion. I say wolf you say cougar. That's that.  
If you care to read my earlier exchange with jcol. You will see I laid a decent case based on facts for the wolf. I just don't feel like beating a dead drum anymore. Who knows maybe you and jcol are one in the same. After all you sound identical.
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 3:42 AM by ARR
Who said anything about a steel bolt. Its not like they ripped the door off its hinges. They just forced open a door that wasn't latched on right. You act like its freaking impossible. By the way if you know anything about car doors. They dont have a steel bolt holding the door. They have hinges and a bushing and pin kit.
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 3:54 AM by ARR
wow jayson, you dont know much about vehicles... why the hell would a wolf need to bite through a bolt to get the door off... the bolt would be screwed into hinges which the wolf obviously striped off, reason i choose wolf is not because im a fan cause im not, i just love observing wild animals and types of dogs for along time... i dont see whats so hard about taking a door off for you to believe, i guess your just jealous your damn cougar just isn't smart enough to do that, i choose wolves because these simple facts the wolf has a very power bite compared to the cougar, or any land only animal. the cougar maybe a little bigger and 25 pounds heavier and a little faster at !RUNNING! but that does not help the cougar at all if the wolf bites it(if the cougar runs it not a fight)the cougar is dead... the cougar can bite the wolf and it survive without a problem. 
wolf=gun cougar=knifes cole got it wrong it nails that are used for griping trees and prey against a bite that would make the cougar lifeless.
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 3:14 PM by t-rex
ARR, I don't know any jcol, I don't know you. I just started posting on this board a few months ago. For my money, wolverine boy and t-rex seem like the same person, but I can't say for sure. 
Now, if you had checked, since you seem to like to go back and look at previous posts, you'd know that I was responding to a post by either t-rex or wolverine boy, who first mentioned in the story about the Wolf and the Dodge Ram 1500 truck, that the door had been found LAYING ON THE GROUND. This would seem to indicate that the Wolves somehow managed to get a grip on the door, and by the way, there is no way for them to get any kind of leverage to exert that kind of force, the law of physics just don't work that way, so the Wolves get a grip on the door and RIP it completely off, leaving it on the ground. Now if you don't think that could happen, then your argument is not with me, but with t-rex or wolverine boy. 
Now, let's get to your choice of picking the Wolf over the Cougar. 
Aside from the fact that you can't back that up with anything other than; "nobody knows what would actually happen", which is just weak, it was you yourself who estimated that the Cougar would win 6 out of 10 confrontations. And yet now, in a single, winner take all fight, you go with the Wolf, even though the odds, placed by you, are against him. 
How does that work? 
Maybe you need to take another shit on Sunday, because frankly, this kind of behavior borders on idiocy. 
Nature is both simple and complex. 
The build up to a fight between two animals, same species or not, can be complex. 
The actual fighting, is pretty simple. The bigger, stronger, faster animal, will almost always win. There is no strategy when two wild animals fight. There is only technique. I can back up my claim that the Cougar wins, because the Cat has the edge in all of these factors. All you have going for the Wolf winning, is 'chance'. 
The Wolf has two chances against the Cougar. 
"Little" and "No".
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 3:19 PM by Jayson
t-rex, so the wolf pulled on the door, exerting enough pressure to snap the bolts that held the door on, or did the Wolf find a screwdriver and use that? 
Or are you seriously saying the Wolf broke the hinges holding the door on a heavy-duty Dodge Ram truck? 
I swear son, you get more goofy with every post.
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 3:31 PM by jayson
You overestimate the cougars weapons. If you observe cougars they use their claws to climb and grasp. Not to kill. They grasp their prey then use their bite for a killing blow. There are many factors personality being one of them. Not all cougars are equal. Some are laid back others aggressive. That's why I say you oversimplify and generalize. Same goes for the wolf. If a laid back cougar confronts a aggressive seasoned alpga wolf the wolf wins. If a aggressive experienced cougar confronts a laid back timid wolf the cougar wins. If a aggressive cougar takes on a aggressive alpha wolf it can go either way. Yes I said the cougar wins 6 times out if ten and I stand by it.  
In the scenario you dictate the cougar wins, and should. In my scenario either could win depending on variables and many factors. But nature does not go by our rules or feelings. You say that nature is both complex and simple. That's absurd and ironic. Nature is very complex and harsh. Try telling that to a cougar or a wolf. If they could speak they would both tell you that the only thing that's simple in nature is your thought process. 
Ohh! Low blow! Sorry just kidding. You do make some good opinionated points.
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 3:51 PM by ARR
jayson, im not sure your understanding this wolf bite cougar it dies the chance of the wolf biting the cougar is very high, you fail to mention anything about its fatal bite all you talk about is the cougar is bigger and faster... its only faster at running and size dont make a difference when it only that small, your overrating the cougar as if it was a jaguar and your overrating the truck bad two yes 1500 are big sturdy and very powerful but the wolf can handle it in the video it did not show every move the wolf made but it doesn't take that much to get it off it hinges if you put thought into it, im not wolverine boy nor do i know him hes just some guy on a form... now tell me how the cougar is gonna survive with a good wolf bite or whats gonna happen if the cougar gets tired.
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 4:11 PM by t-rex
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 4:40 PM by t-rex
Are you seriously saying that a Cougars claws cannot cause injury? Look at how muscular it's fore-quarters are! 
The FORCE a Cougar can bring to bear behind those claws can INDEED cause a LOT of damage. 
I thought we were making this a simple contest between two top predators, IN THEIR PRIME. 
Stop with the qualifiers and the what ifs. 
The fact is, Nature IS both simple and complex. Example; how do Wolves in a Wolf pack keep from tearing each other apart while eating? You know as well as I that the answer is a complex combination of signals, sounds, and other factors. The pack structure is very complex, but the Wolves keep from inflicting serious damage upon one another. 
That's an example of how complex nature can be.  
Now, Wolves are known to kill the cubs and kits of Bears and Cougars whenever they can, even though they're not recognized as prey. 
Because they ARE recognized as competition, and it's a whole lot easier to kill them when they're young, than deal with them when they're full-grown. 
Pretty simple logic. 
Why do male Lions that take over a pride, kill the cubs of the previous male? To bring the females into heat so that he may advance his own bloodlines. 
Simple enough. 
But why is it always a tense moment when a female brings her cubs, sired by him, around him for the first time? 
Why is it risky?  
Perhaps he doesn't recognize them as his. That's the simple answer. 
Or is it something more complex? 
These are but a few examples of why I say Nature is both simple AND complex. 
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 4:45 PM by jayson
t-rex, nobody is underestimating the Wolf. He does indeed have a very powerful bite. 
But the Wolf has to get a KILLING bite in on the Cougar. The Cat is not gonna die if the Wolf bites him on the shoulder. The Cougar is just one big coiled spring of MUSCLE. His agility and reaction time, is much quicker than the Wolf's. The Cougar is much more likely to get in a killing bite on the Wolf, because that's how the Cougar kills. Make no mistake, I have every respect for the Wolf, but the Cougar is a superior fighter and killer.
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 5:02 PM by jayson
Just because you can analyze, explain and understand the way nature works does not make it simple. If mother nature was simple then why can us being the superior intellectual mammals manufacture and recreate nature? Simple to understand sometimes, but the sole basis of the way our natural environmental infrastructure operates is very complex. Just observe the anatomy of a human being and ask yourself if its simple. 
Now getting back to the Wolf and the Cougar. Wolves are known to chase their prey for hours and when the prey is exhausted they go for the killing blow. All a wolf needs to do is toy around with the cougar until it tires and it can kill it easily. The Cougar may be a solid coiled spring of muscle. But its a fact that if they are not successful with their initial attack they do not have enough stamina to keep on fighting.  
So I say this. If the fight is brief the Cougar wins. If its extended the Wolf wins. Thats a fact that cannot be disputed. 
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 6:10 PM by ARR
you cougar siders are just idiots arent you. i dnt know how many times i have to say it. the wolf will most likely just stare at the cougar. the cougar will then realize the wolf will put up a fight. this will cause your little sissy cat to run off. oh and jason while your talking about me pissing off a cougar .i really wonder if you got the balls to even piss off a pit bull. i know i do. i have always known that the wolf is superior to the cougar. the question is how dumb enough are you to stick with that poor cat winning huh. you dont want to argue about this cause i will win. if you dont believe me then try me
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 9:46 PM by jordan
did jayson just say that a cougars claws can bring down a bear. wow this guy is stupid. ill say it slow and in all caps for ya ok. THE COUGARS CLAWS IS MEANT FOR HOLDING NOT KILLING. that plain enough for someone of your inferior intillect jay is it or do i have to dumb it down even more for ya
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 9:58 PM by jordan
Jordan, why don't you go take a nap or something, ok? 
Sleep off some of that stupid that's in you. 
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 6:04 AM by Jayson
And no, Jordan. 
I did not say a Cougar's claws could bring down a Bear. 
Now go away, kid.
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 6:07 AM by Jayson
ARR, do you seriously think it would be simple to just "toy around" with the Cougar? 
You are talking as if the Wolf would have come up with some kind of strategy to win this fight. 
You're acting as if the Wolf would treat the Cougar as prey. 
This is a fight, with both animals seeing the other as a threat. 
The Cougar's initial attack is just too quick for the Wolf. Unless there is considerable distance between the two, the Wolf cannot evade, he cannot run away.  
They will lock up, and the Cougar will use his superior strength and agility to pin the Wolf down and deliver a killing bite. 
You are again, introducing a "what if" scenario, to try and even the odds, to give the Wolf a chance. 
The Wolf has no idea how much stamina a Cougar has. Wolves don't have long drawn out fights between themselves. Neither do Cougars. What makes you think the Wolf is gonna come up with some kind of Rope-a-Dope strategy? 
Animals do NOT fight this way. 
Again, ARR, I said Nature is both simple AND complex, and gave you examples of both. 
Let's be clear, Man can only create a facsimile of Nature, or induce Nature to do what it would have normally done anyway. It is more accurate to say SOME aspects of humankind, is indeed complex. Some are very basic and easy to understand. There is no great mystery where the basic needs of survival are concerned. 
Sustenance, procreation, nurturing. 
There is nothing complex about these things, and it's not hard to figure out how any particular entity goes about satisfying those needs. 
The relationship and interaction between individuals is much more complex to understand, in both humans and animals. 
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 6:59 AM by Jayson
first offjayson im not a kid. and second off why dont you stop commenting on this blog because you are an obvious idiot who has no knowledge of the animal world. stop pretending to be a big know it all animal expert and shut the fuck up. ok
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:26 AM by jordan
oh and once again jay the wolf is much more agile and fast than your sissy cat. why dont you give it up. the dog beats the cat
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:28 AM by jordan
Once again you underestimate the wolf's speed and reflexes. There is a video out there somewhere where two wolves chased a cougar away from its kill. The cougar charged and attacked and missed every time. As soon as I find it I will post the link. 
About nature being simple and complex. I still think that it maybe simple to understand. But it does not make it simple in essence. Humans can barely reproduce single cell organisms. The most simple form of life. So I guess we can just agree to disagree on that. 
Life is full of what if's. Why do you deny that certain factors can determine an outcome? Variables and certain scenarios apply to every aspect of life. Including Wolf V Cougar.
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:30 AM by ARR
wow there are a lot of aguments on this blog. any way i vote wolf will win. now im going before another argument starts up
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:30 AM by roscoe
ok jay how about we both be mature about this. i wont argue with you anymore cause i see that you are sticking with your desicion. im sorry that we have wasted each others time. i now respect your answer and move on. all i ask is that you do the same ok. there is no need to argue any further
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:32 AM by jordan
oh and i understand if you want to still curse me out for my previous comments. so go ahead i dont care anymore. just know i think the wolf will win.
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:38 AM by jordan
While I don't neccessarily appreciate being cussed at, in any kind of forum, I do understand that when the facts are against you, sometimes your only recourse is to yell and scream and curse, and hope that VOLUME overcomes REASON. With that said, Jordan, your argument has not been with the facts I use to back up my argument, but rather with the way I present them. 
I don't mean to come off as a know-it-all, none of us on these boards are. It doesn't matter to me if someone chooses the Wolf over the Cougar. That's your right. 
All I've ever asked of anyone, is to present some credible reasons and facts that support your choice, if you are so inclined to press your point. 
We all lose our temper from time to time, and I'm willing to put it down as a heat-of-the-moment thing, and forget it.  
We can be civil and still disagree. 
So Jordan, I understand where you're coming from, and let's just respectfully disagree.
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 2:30 PM by jayson
ARR, you continue to accuse me of underestimating the Wolf's speed and reflexes. 
I could flip that coin over and make the same charge against you, that you continue to underestimate the Cougar's speed and reflexes. 
The simple fact is, one HAS to be quicker than the other. 
Everyone knows that the Wolf is built for endurance, long distance running. 
The Cougar is built for shorter, faster attacks. This is the way nature built the two animals. 
If there's a video out there with TWO wolves chasing a Cougar away from a kill, that shouldn't be a big surprise, given the odds. 
With TWO advasaries, the Cougar was probably more in a defensive mode, if not full out flight, and it's focus could not be on just ONE wolf. A charge at one, leaves it's backside unprotected. 
If you can show me a video where ONE Wolf actually evades a full-out charge by a Cougar that's ready to fight and/or kill, then you might have an argument. 
As for the 'what if' scenarios, it's simply impossible to allow for every single condition that may be present in a confrontation such as this, conditions that would favor the Wolf, OR conditions that would favor the Cougar. So why not simply eliminate ALL the variables, put both animals on equal footing, and let the outcome be dictated by the strength and weaknesses of the two combatants? 
Why introduce a 'what if' that benefits ONLY the Wolf?
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 3:00 PM by Jayson
wow, this form has gotten wild the last 24 hours anyhow, no what ifs the wolf will bite the cougar its slightly smaller so it has a good chance of biting the cougars thought... cougar dies! end of story!  
you got to see the cougar does have more weapons with a weaker bite. so its kinda like the cougar is packing 18 knifes and 9mm while the wolf is packing a shotgun, lol i love making these retarded scenes up, but it really is kinda like that. 
but heres a list of good what ifs since jayson hates em so much. 
cougar ambushes wolf=cougar 
wolf invites friends=wolf 
wolf makes cougars tired(it wouldnt be that hard. the wolf has better hand eye coronation and faster reflexes, cougars are only faster at running and swiping a paw.) wolf wins. 
wolf gets a fairly decent bite. wolf wins again. 
cougar holds wolf down with paws long enough to get a killer bite. cougar wins. 
now what would most likely happen if they was put in a 12x12 room without bushes or any thing else and was released at the same time, the wolf would bite the cougar... cougar would instantly die, even if it was not a good bite the cougar would stiff bleed to death with bad injury or later die of rabies lol but if anyone disagrees please say, and tell why.
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 4:42 PM by t-rex
sorry messed up, wow, this form has gotten wild the last 24 hours, anyhow, no what ifs. The wolf will bite the cougar its slightly smaller so it has a good chance of biting the cougars thought... cougar dies! end of story!
Posted @ Saturday, February 26, 2011 4:44 PM by t-rex
did you guys know that the largest wolf ever (epicyon haydeni) was larger than a modern lion. they need to bring that back. that dog could probably kill a bear. it was built mor like a cat though but it is in the canidae category so dogs are its relatives
Posted @ Monday, February 28, 2011 7:30 PM by jordan
now a good matchup between dog and cat would be epicyon(dog) vs smilodon(cat). although i say epicyon will win because it was a dog but built like a cat except for the skull and teeth
Posted @ Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:08 PM by jordan
I don't know how much your epicyon weighed, but the smilodon was as big as a modern day lion, perhaps even larger. They weighed between 450 and 500 lbs. And they were EXTREMELY powerful. They were not as tall or long as the modern-day big cats, so their bodies were just packed with muscle. 
Posted @ Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:36 PM by jayson
I just looked up epicyon. I found several websites. All except one listed the epicyon as between 150 and 200lbs, with one specimen estimated at 220lbs. This is less than half the weight of the smilodon. Only one site listed the epicyon as "as large as a modern day Lion". 
I think that claim is highly suspect.
Posted @ Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:44 PM by jayson
Found another website which lists the largest estimated specimen ever found, (I assume from fossilized remain) of the epicyon at around 370lbs. 
that's a huge dog. But still a 100 lbs LESS than the average smilodon.
Posted @ Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:53 PM by jayson
you guys must be looking up the wrong dog. epicyon rivaled a bear in size. im going to refind that website(there are like 5 of them). and i will post them hear. try looking up bone crushing dogs and you might find the one im talking about because there are a lot of dogs in the epicyon category. not calling anyone names. i will post the websites here so please be patient. thanks
Posted @ Thursday, March 03, 2011 3:40 PM by jordan
just know jayson that im not starting a argument ok. im not calling names or trying to be offensive. ok
Posted @ Thursday, March 03, 2011 3:42 PM by jordan
No worries, jordan. I'm not saying a dog of that size never existed, I'm just saying I only found ONE website that says it did. 
All the others I looked at had the epicyon at between 150 and 200lbs on average, and one listed an estimated 370lbs for one specimen. 
Anything is possible.
Posted @ Thursday, March 03, 2011 7:09 PM by jayson
oh can you tell me what you mean when you said that that website was highly suspect. im kinda confused and paranoid on what that means. so can you explain it please. thanks and sorry im asking for help on something that is probably very
Posted @ Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:18 PM by jordan
By "highly suspect" I meant that when everyone else is saying something different, one has to wonder why someone would make such a statement. 
Now, I will say that he does kind of cover himself by saying "modern day" Lions, and he didn't specify gender. The average wt of female lions are right in the range he stated. So in THAT regard, he may be right. BUT, that's still a hundred pounds lighter than a Smilodon.
Posted @ Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:37 PM by jayson
ok thanks
Posted @ Friday, March 04, 2011 6:45 AM by jordan
i found one website jayson. try googling epicyon haydeni again except this time there should be a website titled carnovora. ok it says epicyon rivaled a brown bear in size. just keep scrolling and you will see thanks
Posted @ Friday, March 04, 2011 6:49 AM by jordan
oh and theres another called
Posted @ Friday, March 04, 2011 6:52 AM by jordan
jordan, yeah I saw the carnovora site. For whatever reason, I douldn't find the site. 
I had never heard of a epicyon being that big. 
I've read several sites that stated it grew to be larger than than the modern day wolves, and one specimen was estimated at 370lbs. That's the size of a female lion, and a mid to large sized Black Bear, but well outside the norm average of the epicyon. 
as we know it now, and still well short of a mid-sized Brownie. 
I'll keep looking for the other website.
Posted @ Sunday, March 06, 2011 6:03 PM by jayson
well i might be wrong jayson im just repeating what the websites said. as you know i like dogs so i believe them but who knows they could be lying
Posted @ Monday, March 07, 2011 4:42 PM by jordan
i just looked up the two fighters and here is what i found over the course of ten days 
wolf=runs up to 45 to 50 miles over long distances in prolonged bursts 
cougar= runs 30 to 40 miles in short quick bursts 
wolf= smarter than the average dog being able to scope out the enemys flanks and weaknesses 
cougar= tries to use brute force and claws to bring an animal down 
in a fight the wolf is more agile being able to swerve like prey and zig zag when the prey tries to disorient the predator. 
not arguing jayson but the wolf does seem like a very powerful opponent against the cougar 
so this is why i put my money on the wolf 
dont believe me then research it all you like
Posted @ Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:18 PM by jordan
lets size the opponents up, the wolf is 5 to 6 feet long,weighs 180 pounds, the cougar is 5 feet and 200 pounds, so cougar is heavier but the wolf is taller or longer, the gray wolf has bite force of 460 pounds(lowest reading), the cougar is 250 pounds(lowest reading). The gray wolf can cause bone breaking(lethal) bite, the cougar can cause pain, but not lethal. The cougar has 3 inches claws and can produce paw swipe of 250 pounds( lowest reading) same to the bite force, The gray wolf has low paw swipe, not sure but research in Russia said it was 110 pounds(average)The wolf has 2.5 inches of claws.Claws are used for gripping and swipe on smaller animals like wolverine and coyote. The wolf has top speed of 50 miles and can run much longer in the fixed speed. The cougar can run 40 miles but not consistent and can only run at that speed for seconds. Wolf have strength equal to a leopard(Wikipedia said so) The gray wolf can drag a body of a moose all by itself in any terrain and can bring down a moose or bison all by itself(check animal face off video and Wikipedia) The cougar has similar strength. The gray wolf has great agility and spreed, cougar rely on weight advantage and powerful paw swipe. The wolf has long fur which acts as endurance or force absorber, it reduce incoming attacks on the wolfs body, very useful against claws and bite. The cougar has no protection . Lets face it the wolf is fast but the cougar has claws to cover it . The gray wolf can fully rely on bite because the bite can cause fracture  
to bigger animals like moose or grizzly bears. Cougar can rely on paw swipe, wolf has tactical attacks, the cougar rely on seeking the opponents weakness
Posted @ Monday, March 21, 2011 7:26 AM by wolverine boy
Posted @ Thursday, March 24, 2011 4:03 PM by t-rex
wolverine boy, a lot of stuff in your last post is less than factual. The Cougar can indeed snap the neck of smaller ungulates. 
Wolves, on the other hand, almost NEVER face larger prey head on, preferring to attack from behind, in effect, bleeding out the prey. 
The Wolf does not, and cannot use it's paws for gripping or to swipe at prey. 
Wikipedia lists the top speed of the Wolf at about 37 mph, and certainly NOT for a long period of time. The Wolf also simply does NOT have the same strength of a Leopard, and I've never heard or seen any video of a Wolf dragging a full grown moose, for any distance, regardless of terrain. 
The Wolf's fur, while dense during the winter months, is certainly no more so than that of the Moose, and Cougars have no problems killing Moose with a bite to the neck. You need to understand something about bite force. In order to "break bones", the Wolf would have to exert constant pressure over a period of time. It may be a matter of seconds, but it certainly won't be instantaneous, at least not with larger prey or advasaries. And it won't happen on anything other than a foreleg, hindleg, or possibly neck, because otherwise the circumference of the bite is too large to bring sufficient 
pressure. It's the same principle of a human biting into a apple as opposed to a watermelon. Try it, and see which is easier to bring more force to bear against. 
The Cougars superior agility and speed makes it unlikely for the Wolf to get in that kind of bite, or have enough time to do serious damage, even if it did. That's not to say the Wolf might not get lucky. Anything can happen. However, The superiority of the Cougar, in almost every aspect, makes that highly unlikely.
Posted @ Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:43 PM by Jayson
Cats are superior predators to wolfs I don't think that's debatable. Lion, Tigers, Leopards, all are top predators and have no competition from a dog species. They have more weapons, Sharp claws and a devastating bite to the throat which wolfs lack. Lions take down elephants and tigers kill bears, while wolfs, like the pussy's they are, bully the poor coyotes. On the point of who would win between a cougar and wolf I would say the cougar. It will definitely have far superior strength in the early stages of battle and I have actually seen a documentary about wolfs in which a wolf is shown to be killed by a coyote. A lone wolf before all you wolf lovers start shouting out about packs and all the rest of it. Another important point is that I have also seen a dog kill a wolf and the wolfs fight back was what could only be described as pathetic considering it was fighting for it's life. There was actually two dogs but only one actually thought the wolf as when the other dog tried to get involved it would be attacked by the dominating dog. Seriously thought wolfs yes they are vicious and tough but a compared to a large cat where talking about a different league here.
Posted @ Sunday, March 27, 2011 1:16 PM by andrew
Andrew u r funny as hell. First u say the wolf is a pussy and pathetic, then u go on to say yes its vicious and tough. Get out of here! Lol. U just lost all credibility! Wolf wins hands down.
Posted @ Sunday, March 27, 2011 1:36 PM by duron
Duron can you read. I said wolfs are pussy as opposed to cats because they fight the likes of coyotes while lions fight elephants. Also i was talking about a specific wolf when i said pathetic learn to read dude. Also i meant wolfs are tough compared to the likes of you against a large cat they are pathetic. I mean cats dominate the continent of Africa while wolfs are simply lacking compared to bears in North America. I mean how can anyway in their right mind say a wolf would kill a cougar. It really is stupid.
Posted @ Sunday, March 27, 2011 2:11 PM by andrew
andrew you said wolfs a pathetic against large cats, i agree 100 percent but a large cat is lions and tigers, cougars are medium sized cats which a wolf has a great chance of killing. you also the wolf lacks a killer bite through the thought i believe and less i miss read, i wolf has a way more power bite than a cougar, no competition there.
Posted @ Monday, March 28, 2011 1:31 PM by t-rex
Posted @ Monday, March 28, 2011 1:34 PM by t-rex
t-rex, the Cougar is still larger than the Wolf, and not only larger, but stronger. As an ambush predator, he has to be incredibly powerful to strike and hold down his prey while delivering the killing bite. 
And of course, the Cougar is much Quicker than the Wolf. His initial strike is lightning fast. And his agility allows him to twist and turn his body in ways that the Wolf can't, which is very effective when fighting. And while his bite may not be as powerful as the Wolf, the Cougar can also bring his other weapons to bear. 
Size, power, quickness and agility. 
advantage, Cougar.
Posted @ Monday, March 28, 2011 2:02 PM by jayson
A couple of dogs can easily kill a wolf, I'd like to see a couple of dogs take on a cougar, cats are just simply superior to dogs, stronger, faster in short burst, more flexible. If you really think about it and conclude a wolf will kill a cougar you are deluded.
Posted @ Monday, March 28, 2011 8:46 PM by Andrew
andrew shut the fuck up you obviously are mistaking a wolf for a coyote i swear to you my uncle has a grey wolf and i have seen that thing fight pits dobermans and shepards and still come out on top. maybe you and my uncles wolf should have a little chat so you can talk to it face to face. just hope it doesnt tear you to shreds
Posted @ Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:09 PM by jordan
plus wolves have greatlydecreased in size since the ice age and back. 
if you had seen tose dogs then you would know the cat has no chance. 
look up dire wolf, epicyon, and andrewsarchus. those are relativesof wolves. i can give you the sites if you want so let me know and i will happily prove you wrong. 
Posted @ Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:12 PM by jordan
i have spelling errors in that last post cause i was rushing but you will still get my point
Posted @ Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:13 PM by jordan
but jayson i still strongly disagree on the wolf having less agility than a cougar. all that information i got i got from talking with a wolf and cat expert over the course of ten days. i went to the zoo library and even asked those experts. i dnt trust wikepedia because one time i found a thread about a freakin pit killing a full grown male grizzly bear. so i dnt get my info from wiki anymore so sorry
Posted @ Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:20 PM by jordan
HAHA search youtube and you will see dogs killing wolfs quite easily and wtf does the ice age wolfs have to do with anything were talking about modern day. I have both cats and dogs for pets and i am in no doubt cats are smarter, stronger and have more agility and more weapons for attack, therefore i conclude pound for pound cat will kill dog or wolf.
Posted @ Tuesday, March 29, 2011 4:07 PM by andrew
Well Jordan, I don't know what the experts were telling you, and they should certainly know more about it than I, but I've always heard that a cat's spine is much more flexable than that of a dog. 
I found this excerpt on the internet; 
"What allows the cat to contort itself into unusual positions? How can the creature comfortably curl into a perfect circle when sleeping, twitching its tail rhythmically across its nose? The secret to the cat's flexibility lies in the structure of its body. Between each of its 30 spinal vertebrae — five more than in a human — are thick discs of fibrocartilage that are as pliable as they are resilient. In addition, the cat's shoulder bones, or scapulae, are held to the sides of the body by muscle only, permitting movement in almost every direction. And unlike the motion-restricting collarbone of humans, cats have a tiny, muscle-attached "floating" clavicle. The resulting narrow chest accounts for the exceptionally long stride of cats and explains their talent for squeezing through tight spaces." 
Now granted, the article was about 10 to 12 lb housecats, but they're just smaller versions of their larger cousins. At any rate, this set-up, along with the large rear leg muscles, allows the cat to not only jump incredible distances, but it also allows it to land safely from incredible heights. 
It gives the cat it's lightning fast first strike. That first strike is a weapon unto itself, as the Cougar gets up to speed so quickly, it can hit it's prey like a ton of bricks, and should it come to a short chase, the Cougar is able to change directions and cut corners much more easily than any Wolf can. The Cougar is also comfortable fighting with it's back on the ground. When a Wolf get's pinned, it's pretty much game over. 
Those are the reasons I think the Cougar is more agile than the Wolf.  
Posted @ Tuesday, March 29, 2011 10:56 PM by jayson
this post is for andrew ill get to you later jay. so andrew i searched youtube and did not find a single video of a dog killing a wolf. so what the hell are you talking about
Posted @ Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:58 PM by jordan
and the ice age wolves have everything to do with the modern day wolves because if they were still alive im pretty sure a cougar would be very rare to find today. him and any other cat
Posted @ Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:00 PM by jordan
ill get to you soon jay i got to read that book on wolves and i will show you some fcts. i will admit that afer listening to a wild cat expert i have SO MUCH MORE RESPECT FOR A COUGAR NOW. and please know that i am arguing with you and andrews views not you two as a person ok
Posted @ Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:02 PM by jordan
Posted @ Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:03 PM by reginald
ok jay im back and im going to type an excert i found. 
"when people think wolves words like grace and majesticness come to mind. wolves are apex skilled cunning and brave animals. while they compete with cougars bears and many other predators.a cougar or a bear can kill a wolf and a wolf can kill a cougar. though the bear is the top predator a wolf and a cougar will fight a bear if its life depended on it. the wolf may reach a top speed of 40 miles and hour on rare occasions up to as fast as 50. wolves have high density bones which makes them much more prepared than the average dog. 
with a bite of 1000 pounds to 1500 psi a wolf can snap a bone with ease. armed with a thick pelt a deadly bite speed and brains a wolf has what it takes to compete with any other predator on earth. from bears to bobcats." 
so as you can see this has ave me even more evidence that a wolf can kill a cougar. all im saying is that the wolf has justa good a chance as a cougar at killing eachother. neither will win every time. if you want to know the name of the book on cougars i got from the cat expert let me know and i will happily post it hear.
Posted @ Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:17 PM by jordan
i haventfound any thing on agility or power yet because i just started reading my book on wolves but when i find something interesting you will be the first to know
Posted @ Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:18 PM by jordan
i also found out this on 
"the wolf has more teeth than a cougar and they are sharper." 
a cougar has longer teeth. but the wolf being 5 feet long to 6 feet long and 3 feet tall actually may look bigger in the winter due to the fur getting longer and denser. so if the wolf ever met a cougar the cougar would most likely back down or the wolf would step down if it didnt come to food territory or babies. also the wolf is agile being able to swerve like its prey thanks to the quick reflexes and paw movement combined with superior eyesight and hearing. i would like to hear your thoughts on this so let me know what you think
Posted @ Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:35 PM by jordan
wolves have been known to scare off cougars in battles rather then fight. so a wolf will own a cougars ass.
Posted @ Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:36 PM by roscoe
roscoe i think a cougar will own a wolves ass. cougars ARE IN MY OPINION BETTER. BUT ANDREW JUST BECAUSE YOUR CAT IS STRONGER AND SMARTER THAN YOUR DOG DOESNT MEAN CATS ARE BETTER OVER ALL. YOU MUST HAVE A STUPID DOG OR A SCIENTIFIC THING GONE WRONG GOING HERE. your sample set of your cats and dogs are to small. no animal studier would agree with you because you are only talking about in your eyes. not over all. think before you post something lunk head
Posted @ Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:39 PM by jazmine
i say its 50 50 for both animals both are great
Posted @ Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:41 PM by cats vs dog
roscoe, take your weak-ass crap home. Give us something to debate over, or be quiet and let the adults play this game. 
Jordan, as we all know, solitary hunters are more likely to forego a confrontation, as any injury could be a death sentence. Being more aggressive does not make an animal superior. We've heard stories of Wolverines backing down Bears. It's not because the Bear is afraid, it's because the Bear doesn't think it's worth the trouble. Remember, this exercise is about what would happen if the two animals ever fought. Pack animals in general, can afford to be more agressive. The Cougar has quicker reflexes because of it's hunting technique. As an ambush predator it has to react quickly to whatever it's prey may do. It doesn't depend on any other Cougar to take up the slack. The Cougar's long tail, which is not unlike that of the Cheetah's, acts like a rudder and allows the Cougar to cut and corner better than almost any other predator, other than the Cheetah. In general, I feel that solitary hunters are better hunters. I'm just trying to break this down to it's base. 
When you have one animal that is superior in so many factors, how can you not go with that animal? 
Intellect is a wash and it's not a factor anyway. This is not a boxing match. It's a brawl. 
Size goes to the Cougar, on average. 
Quickness goes to the Cougar. 
Power goes to the Cougar. 
Weapons goes to the Cougar. 
Stamina goes to the Wolf, but the fight won't last long, so it's a non-factor. 
The Cougar wins this fight.
Posted @ Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:15 PM by jayson
Well actually i did think i base what i say on a number of facts such as cats can jump far higher than any dogs, therefore i believe cats have stronger legs i think its pretty obvious of how that would be useful in a fight. I have also known dogs to run head first into my glass back door something i think a cat would never be so stupid to do. Another important point is a tiny cat could do a person a lot of damage with its small claws whereas a large dog would struggle to. These are some of the points i thought about before i gave my answer, If you were to have a unbiased look at the two species i think anyone would conclude cats are superior in almost everyway not say i don't like dogs this is just down to who is the superior killer.  
Last point if dogs are superior why are they less successful than cats in the wild. Theres more species of cats living today and ones that are far superior in size to any dog species.
Posted @ Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:20 AM by andrew
wolves rule cats suck ass cracks
Posted @ Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:47 PM by roscoe
1.cougars are not stronger! they only have stronger legs and arms, the wolf has a stronger body, jaws, bite, and bones allowing it to take more damage and bite way harder. 
2."Another important point is a tiny cat could do a person a lot of damage with its small claws whereas a large dog would struggle to." has to be the stupidest thing ive ever herd. if a small cat attacks me i could kick it like a foot ball. if a large dog attacks me, i have a high chance of dieing. you need to rethink that statement imagine being attacked by a rott or a german shepherd mine died about a year ago but if he attacked me even at age 15 i could have very easily been killed but i loved my dog and he would have never did that, im just saying there no way in hell a small cat can do more damage cause a large dog would kill u if u didnt have a weapon. nabors old chiwawa(dont know how to spell it) use to come over in my yard and have my old cat scared to death it would climb to the top of a tree in fear.
Posted @ Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:18 PM by t-rex
t-rex, just where is it you read that a Wolf has a stronger "body" than the Cougar? 
I'm just asking. 
I don't believe it, but I'd like to read it, if you can give me a link.
Posted @ Thursday, March 31, 2011 10:07 PM by jayson
im at a loss for words
Posted @ Friday, April 01, 2011 7:37 AM by jordan
wolves rule
Posted @ Friday, April 01, 2011 7:38 AM by roscoe
roscoe If you take time to read what i said maybe you will see that what you are saying is stupid. Firsty i was clearly refering to legs when talking about strength as i said 'therefore i believe cats have stronger legs' and when i was talking about damage i was refering to attacks using their paws. A dogs claws are prettymuch useless as opposed to a cats sharp retractable ones. So Roscoe actually understand what i say before you reply to it.
Posted @ Friday, April 01, 2011 10:01 AM by andrew
here some comparison i pulled out of a book about mountain lions and grey wolf book. 
1.Cougars hit harder with their paws, wolfs dont even consider using theirs in a fight. wolves use there paws for helping pull things i can confirm that a wolf on average can pull more weight then a cougar by mouth. 
2.wolves have lots of agility compared to the cougar which tires easily. 
3.wolves and cougars both have the same average speed of 45 mph this is in both books however the wolf can run this speed much longer than a cougar. 
4.on average the cougar has weight advantage but wolves alot of times appear larger than the cougar because their thick coat of fur which has been none to scare cougars away(read this earlier on a website) 
4.Cougars bones are more flexible than a wolfs especially the back bone making them more agile. 
Wolfs have stronger bones which makes them harder to break then the cougars. 
5.wolfs are faster fighters while head to head rolling on the ground with faster dodge reflexes and better bite-eye coordination allowing it to have more control saw this on a few website actually. 
6.cougars are better climber and better jumpers. 
7.i think we all know this but the wolf and cougars bite is no comparison. the wolf has more teeth, sharper teeth, and has can have 3 times the bite force. 
8.cougars have more fear in loosing fights while the wolf is more brave even if they would loose alot of time there over confident with animals such as bears. 
9.a lone wolf will mess around with a bear with no fear while cougar would avoid out of fear. 
10.wolves a way better at moving around in snow, mud, and water than cougars. 
11.the reason these animals are compared alot and 50 percent say cougar and the other 50 say wolf well the reason why is there very different in fighting style. but are very similar in way the fight could go earthier way the people that say the wolf has no chance or the cougar has no chance is stupid because they both do there are to things that can easily happen the wolf bite the cougar or the cougar avoid the bite holding the wolf down long enough to get a killer bite, earthier could happen but if it happened on time i would be one of the people putting money on the wolf because i could see one easily getting a bite right on the cougars neck.
Posted @ Friday, April 01, 2011 9:08 PM by t-rex
1. yes, Cougars do use their "claws". They are weapons. The "paws" on the Wolf, are not. 
2.Yes, the Wolf does have more stamina than the Cougar. 
3. Again, the Wolf has more stamina, so he can remain at top speed longer, but he has to. The Wolf is not an ambush hunter. They run thier prey down. They tire it out, and then 'bleed' it by biting the hind-quarters, weakening it until one of the pack can get at the throat. 
4. I don't know what the bone density of either animal is. If you have that info, please share it with me. 
5. Exactly where are you getting your info on the Wolf being "faster" fighters while head to head? Where are you getting the info that they have "faster dodge reflexes"? If those are just opinions, say so. If you have some facts to back it up, prove it. The Cougar, as an ambush predator, has to have quick reflexes and it's "bite-eye coordination" has to be superior, as it kills with a bite to the neck.  
6. Yes, Cougars are better jumpers, and Wolfs can't climb trees. 
7. I don't know how many teeth each animal has, and I've never heard or read anything about how sharp they are. I believe the Cougars teeth are larger. Yes the Wolf has a stronger bite, but the Cougar's bite is just as deadly. You talk as if the Wolf breaks bones everytime he bites something, and that's just not the case. A lot of animals can break through bones, but they have to be in the right position to gain the best leverage, and time enough to exert enough pressure. In a fight, there likely won't be enough time for that, not with the Cougar climbing up his but. 
8. It's not fear of "losing" a fight. It's the instinct that tells them they can't afford to get hurt. Again, as a solitary animal, if it suffers an injury, it has no one to depend on. It doesn't have a pack to fall back on to help feed it or protect it if it's laid up. But make no mistake, if cornered, the Cougar will fight, and if it comes to that, the Wolf is dead meat. 
9. I've seen films of young Cougars "messing" around with Bears, but let's be honest, it's not something that either Wolves or Cougars do on a daily basis. Both animals will avoid an enraged Bear, period. 
10. Where did you read that Wolves are better at moving around in snow, mud and water than Cougars, and what does that have to do with anything? I'd have to check but it seems to me that I read that the Cougar's paw width is huge, I'd say just as large as the Wolf's, if not larger. 
11. We're all entitled to our opinions, but again, I simply ask this question; When two animals face off, and one has the edge in so many factors, how can you bet against that animal? 
Betting on the Wolf is, with all due respect, a sucker's bet.
Posted @ Friday, April 01, 2011 9:53 PM by jayson
wolves ar stronger just go to google and type in dog and cat strengths
Posted @ Sunday, April 03, 2011 12:31 PM by roscoe
jay if cats are better than dogs then why are there police dogs not police cats huh. a wolf is smarter faster and has denser bones. face it the dog wins
Posted @ Sunday, April 03, 2011 12:45 PM by jordan
Jordan, you should know by now that it's a lot more difficult to get a Cat to do anything it doesn't want to do. Dogs have been domesticated to the point that training them to do things, is easy. The Dog is a pack animal and loves to please the pack leader. 
The Cat couldn't care less. 
The Cougar is just as smart, stronger, FASTER, bigger and has more weapons. 
The Cougar wins, period. 
Now, unless you got anything in the way of facts to refute that, we've got very little left to argue about. 
Posted @ Sunday, April 03, 2011 1:58 PM by jayson
ok i have lots to debate over but i guess you ran out of stuff so watever you say jay lets stop the argument here and now
Posted @ Sunday, April 03, 2011 7:39 PM by jordan
If you have something that can be backed up or at least checked, then by all means, we can continue. 
But I don't think either one of us needs to hear something that has no basis of fact. I'm probably as guilty as the next person, so I'll try to stick with saying what I know to be a fact, or at least have read to be fact, and try to back it up with a link or a website. As you say, wikipedia is not neccessarily the best place to get info, but it does supply some links to bolster the information. 
It's been a decent back and forth, so far, so if you have something you strongly believe in, throw it at me. I'm always up for a good debate.
Posted @ Sunday, April 03, 2011 11:20 PM by jayson
your absolutely correct jay thats why i respect your answers cause your cool about it
Posted @ Tuesday, April 05, 2011 10:10 AM by jordan
all the wolf has to do is bite the cougar and break something and the cougar will quit. one bite is all it takes for the wolf to win. 
Posted @ Tuesday, April 12, 2011 2:49 PM by daniel
Thanks for playing, Daniel. 
Now drink your milk and go to bed. 
The grown-ups are talking.
Posted @ Tuesday, April 12, 2011 5:42 PM by jayson
that was cold jay although i do agree with daniel
Posted @ Wednesday, April 13, 2011 1:54 PM by jordan
jayson can hate al he wants cause he knows im right you got dissed jayson
Posted @ Wednesday, April 13, 2011 2:10 PM by daniel
jordan and daniel are right jayson. the dog beats cat. only the lion tiger and jaguar can kill the wolf with ease. but dogs still are better
Posted @ Wednesday, April 13, 2011 2:33 PM by danny
lay off of jay you too because he is just voicing his opinion. you two need to go and play or something cause you ae not mature at all. daniel and danny. though i disagree with jayson i am on his side when it comes to dissing. ay off nad leave people aone. im on you side jay though i still think the wolf is the winner
Posted @ Wednesday, April 13, 2011 2:36 PM by jordan
fuck you jordan and jayson i will kick both your asses. i dont care if you are on the wolfs side jordan. i will kill you too jay. suck the cats ass ay cause you need too. ad jordan just shut the fuck up
Posted @ Wednesday, April 13, 2011 2:38 PM by danny
fuck you danny and i realized i have some errors in my last post and danny i would like to see you try and fight me cause i wil fuckig kill you and your fmily. DONT MESS WITH ME YOU DUMB 12 YEAR OLD SOME OF A BITCH YOU WANT TO DIS ILL DIS RIGHT BACK SO BRING IT
Posted @ Wednesday, April 13, 2011 2:40 PM by jordan
In the summer of around 2000, I and my adult children who were visiting, saw and heard a Cougar (Mountain Lion)... in the exact center of New York State. They're not supposed to be here. We've also heard a blood-curdling scream that is like the one described for female cougars.
Posted @ Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:22 PM by Max
Well, I see the ITG's are out; 
The Internet Tough Guys. 
danny's the toughest little boy in the world. 
If you don't believe me, just ask him.  
danny, your shit is even weaker than I thought it was. You don't even rise to the level of grade school nonsense. You're sitting there with your little dick all hard because you said the word "fuck" and your mommy doesn't know about it. 
You're a waste of human skin, and I'll spend no more time on you.
Posted @ Wednesday, April 13, 2011 7:20 PM by Jayson
damn jay your disses are evil man. its like you made danny cry in his sleep. though that was funny. "your sitting there with your little dick all hard because you said the word fuck and your mommy doesnt know it." THAT HAD ME ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING.
Posted @ Thursday, April 14, 2011 2:01 PM by jordan
Well jordan, you and I have had a pretty decent discussion, and it's been civil. You've presented your points and thoughts very well, and I hope I've done the same. It's just a shame that forums like this will always attract juveniles like danny who have no real-life skills, and can only feel important by making asisnine statements, solely for the purpose of gaining attention. 
Anyway, we probably won't agree on the Cougar/Wolf fight, but that's ok. Maybe we can find another animal face-off to argue about. 
But just for the record, the Cougar still beats the Wolf!
Posted @ Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:58 PM by jayson
Ok, Danny. You've made a statement, you think the Wolf wins. 
Now, back it up. Give me some reasons as to why YOU think the Wolf wins this fight. 
I've stated my reasons before, but for the record, I'll do so again; 
The Cougar is larger. 
The Cougar is stronger. 
The Cougar is quicker and more agile. 
The Cougar has more weapons. 
Given all of these advantages, I don't see how anyone could choose the Wolf. 
But go ahead. Convince me. 
Posted @ Friday, April 15, 2011 12:08 AM by jayson
im going over to the bear vs tiger one because i think the bear will win. and yes you have been civil too. i say bear but if you disagree then it begins on bear vs tiger.
Posted @ Friday, April 15, 2011 7:54 AM by jordan
i told yo jayson one bite is all it takes for the wolf to break something on the cougar. im right your wrong
Posted @ Friday, April 15, 2011 7:55 AM by danny
wolf is smarter. 
wolf has stronger bite force 
wolf has denser bones and thicker pelt 
wolf has faster reflexes. 
wolf is smaller and therefore harder to catch than cougar. 
this is my last post on this as i will be on the bear vs tiger one from now on so this is why i say wolf wins. 
until later jay
Posted @ Friday, April 15, 2011 12:10 PM by jordan
oh and jay reflexes and agility are 2 different things. 
reflexes= how fast you react  
agility=how quick you are compared to your opponent. 
notice i have given completely different values to the wolf than you did the cougar. 
but it seems that we wont change our andswer no matter what. well im going over to the other post so maybe ill see ya there. later
Posted @ Friday, April 15, 2011 12:13 PM by jordan
oh and i wasnt saying you were dumb or anything when i was talking about agility and reflexes so please dont get the wrong idea ok and thanks
Posted @ Friday, April 15, 2011 12:14 PM by jordan
danny: If that's all you got, there's no sense in wasting anymore time on you. You don't seem to understand the actual dynamics of the situation and offer nothing in the way of support for your position. 
Jordan: No offense taken on the "reflex" and "agility" thing. 
Let me try to explain it this way; 
you've heard of the saying "relexes like a Cat"? There's a reason for that. The Cougar is a stealth hunter. When it makes it's charge, it has to be able to react in a split-second to whatever the target-prey does.  
That's why the Cougar has superior reflexes. 
The Cougar also hunts in many different types of terrain. It can hunt amongst trees, rocks, brush, with each different type of terrain presenting a different set of obstacles to overcome. The Cougar can attack from above or burst out from under the brush, and again, when the prey reacts and tries to escape, the Cougar has to react almost instantly, climbing up, down, around rocks, trees and brush. The kill MUST be quick, because that's how the Cougar is designed. 
The Wolf does poorly when hunting in almost anything other than open ground. It's not built to jump or climb. It's built to run it's prey to ground. 
That's why the COUGAR beats the Wolf. 
The Cougar is STRONGER, FASTER, better REFLEXES, more AGILITY, and has more weapons to use. 
And by the way, I've NEVER heard of a Wolf breaking the bones of another Wolf (Not in it's pack) while in a fight.  
And the thicker pelt of the Wolf will offer NO PROTECTION when going up against the Cougar. The Cat routinely kills prey that has pelts just as thick if not thicker. 
Let's sgree to diasagree. 
We both agree however, on the Bear beating the Tiger. 
Posted @ Friday, April 15, 2011 1:49 PM by jayson
Posted @ Friday, April 15, 2011 2:00 PM by jordan
can you all please suggest wolf vs hyena in the suggest link at the top of the site. i want to debate on that fight. thx
Posted @ Monday, April 18, 2011 2:16 PM by dacoba
i do too
Posted @ Monday, April 18, 2011 2:16 PM by jordan
wat if the wolf used the bite and shake method on the cat. the wolf would win
Posted @ Tuesday, April 19, 2011 1:58 PM by google.
jayson cats arent the ultimate predators actually its dogs. take the african wild dog and th ion for example. they both live in groups but the wild dog makes a kill 8 out of 10 times while the lion (who most people say is the ultimate predator) has a kill rate of 30% or 3 out of ten times. that proves that even if cats lived in groups like dogs. the dog woud be the superior hunter and fighter due to better senses and teamwork. if you dont believe the info i just gave about the dog and the lion then look it up all you want. i wouldnt lie about this but andrew i just proved you wrong when you said cats are more succesful than dogs.
Posted @ Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:18 PM by jordan
Posted @ Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:20 PM by danny
jordan, the African Wild Dog does indeed have a superior kill rate than the African Lion. 
But that doesn't make it the superior PREDATOR and certainly not a superior fighter. 
When I say ULTIMATE predator, I'm talking about the animal having the ability to KILL. 
Lots of predators may have a better kill rate, but nothing preys upon the APEX predator. 
Single big cats can kill most of the big ungulates it preys upon. 
A single wolf CAN kill a large ungulate, but it's VERY RARE. They simply are not built to face big prey head on, one-on-one. They don't have the power or weaponry to get the job done quickly, thereby decreasing the chance of injury. 
When the Wild Dogs of Africa make a kill, they bolt the food down as quick as possible. Not because they're starving, but because they don't want to take the chance that Hyenas or Lions will come and take the kill away. They are better hunters, but they can't face up to the stronger PREDATORS. 
simply put, preying upon an animal is not the same as HUNTING that animal. 
The Apex, or Ultimate Predator, is at the TOP of the food chain. 
danny, I'd tell you to suck your own dick, but you'd need a pair of tweezers and fingernail clippers to snip the pathetic little thing off to pop in your mouth. 
Hopefully you quit playing with yourself long enough to have learned something. 
I doubt it though.  
Posted @ Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:49 PM by jayson
jordan, let me amend that last part. 
Being the most SUCCESSFUL hunter, does not make you the TOP predator. 
That sounds better.
Posted @ Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:54 PM by jayson
Jayson you do realize that wolves are apex predators too right? Wolves can kill cougars and cougars can kill wolves. Plain and simple. I do agree that the cougar is superior. I just dont think that a Large Alpha Wolf does not have a chance. You underestimate its speed, reflexes, instincts and intelligence. I read an article from Montana that park rangers found a dead cougar. The found wolf bites on its skull. They said it was done by a single wolf. Whether or not it had its pack to help distract it is a negative. Since there were only a single wolfs paw marks in the snow. Wolves are known to have better traction in the snow. Their weakness by not having retractable claws is their strength in the snow.
Posted @ Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:01 PM by ARR
Yes ARR, you are absolutely right in that the Wolf is considered an apex predator. The problem is that it's not the TOP predator. One-on-one, the Grizzly WILL kill the Wolf. One-on-one, the Black Bear will kill the Wolf. One-on-one, the Cougar will more often than not, by a good margin I think, kill the Wolf. there IS a hierarchy in play, a natural progression. Where the Wolf gains the upper-hand in these encounters, is if he is backed up by his pack. I am curious as to why you say wolves have better traction in the snow. 
Where did you hear that? What does not having a retractable claw have to do with traction?  
I am not underestimating the Wolf's attributes. Maybe you're underestimating the Cougars? 
The story you gave about the article in Montana, tells me absolutely nothing, other than someone found a dead Cougar with Wolf bites to the skull. How big was the Cougar? How old? Did they see signs of a struggle? 
Let's be completely honest, ok? 
This is all about a simple contest between a Wolf and a Cougar. Let's take all the variables out of it, because there are some that benefit BOTH animals. So let's place it on neutral ground. I am fully aware that the Cougar will not always win. ANYTHING can happen. But for this one contest, who do you put your money on? 
In comparing the two, the Cougar come out on top in most factors. 
The good money goes on the Cougar. 
But yes, a Wolf can kill a Cougar, 
but it's more likely to be the other way around.
Posted @ Tuesday, April 19, 2011 6:26 PM by jayson
what if the wolf used the bite and shake method on the cougar. the cat would be fucked and would probably die by the wolf.
Posted @ Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:49 AM by jordan
but jayson there is a difference between being the best fighter and the best predator.we all know that the top fighters are the crocs,bears,lions,and tigers. but the top PREDATORS OR HUNTERS are dogs do to there higher succes rate. we all know a lion could kill a wild dog. that makes them the better fighter but the are still inferior predators when it comes to hunting. wild dog beats lion in predation. lion beats dog in fighting. so you see there is a difference
Posted @ Wednesday, April 20, 2011 2:25 PM by jordan
my dick is bigger than yours tho jayson because yours is microscopic. THE WOLF IS BETTER.
Posted @ Wednesday, April 20, 2011 2:27 PM by danny
Jayson u said i quote "One-on-one, the Grizzly WILL kill the Wolf. One-on-one, the Black Bear will kill the Wolf. One-on-one, the Cougar will more often than not, by a good margin I think, kill the Wolf." a grizzly will kill a wolf and so will most bears but that any difference between the wolf and the cougar. 
a cougar has no chance against a bear earthier. the cougars is not high on the food chain at all it somewhere in the middle i would say right below the grey wolf. if you have watched bear vs wolf and bear vs cougar youtube videos which there is some. you will notice out of the 2 the wolf has a better chance against the bear than a cougar does.cougars are loser thats why they have no friends lol(just kidding bout that part) but wolves do navigate in mud and snow and other wettish environments obviously because all dogs do rather than cats.
Posted @ Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:02 PM by t-rex
jordan, according to the dictionary, a predator is "an organism that exists by preying on other organisms". It says nothing about kill-rate. That a predator survives at all means that it's "successful". You can be the best hunter, but that does not make you the top predator. Being the top predator simply means that nothing preys upon you. That has nothing to do with being the best fighter, or the best hunter. Being the best hunter, has nothing to do with being the best fighter. They are all different. 
Being the best hunter does NOT make you the top predator. All it means is that you're the best hunter. Now, I will say this...and if you think otherwise (And I have a feeling you do), please tell me; 
Cougars have better eyesight, better hearing, and their hearing is on an even par, if not better than the wolf's. And just as intelligent. All of that, coupled with superior physical attributes, make the Cougar the superior animal, one-on-one. 
t-rex, i never said the Cougar could beat the Bear, and I would never say that. All I said is that there is a hierarchy, a "chain of command", so-to-speak. It simply goes; Grizzly, Black Bear, Cougar, Wolf. You say, the Wolf has a better chance against the Grizzly.  
No it doesn't. And please don't use videos on youtube as an example. Somebody who can do research better than I will have to look it up, but every site I've seen says the Cougar has wide paws, so I'll wager that the Cat has larger paws than the Wolf, which should aid it all kinds of terrain. In fact, the Cougar travels over more different kinds of terrain than the Wolf. 
Posted @ Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:17 PM by jayson
jayson hear are some facts i found about the wolf. 
-a wolfs hearing is 20 times sharper than a humans beaing able to hear for more than 10 miles a way.they use this excellent sense to hear predators and prey from far away places. 
-a wolfs smell is in fact one of the strongest in the animal kingdom. they can smell a dead cacass from 15 miles downwind and 6 upwind. 
-the wolf has the strongest night vision of any canid alive today. there night vision is as sharp as night vision goggles amplified by 4. 
i highly doubt that any cat can match the wolfs senses and if you dont believe me i can give you the sites and additional info. so tell me how you think the cougars senses can match the wolf in any way. dogs already have better hearing and smell than cats. the only thing the cat might beat the wolf in is sight. but go and try to prove me wrong.
Posted @ Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:05 PM by jordan
and you just proved my point when i was talking about a difference between the best fighter and hunter. as a hunter the lion is inferior to the wild dog. but as a fighter the lion takes it all.there is a difference like i said and you helped proved my point
Posted @ Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:09 PM by jordan
jayson and jordan i agree to both of you all's facts.
Posted @ Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:11 PM by dave
i'm for the wolf.
Posted @ Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:16 PM by dave
OBVIOUSLY, dogs are better. EVERYONE knows that. Let's go over the reasons why.  
Cat owner's = evil, Dog owners = good: Some well known cat owners include Saddam Hussein, Adolph Hitler, Mike Tyson and Martha Stewart. See, cat owners are B@STARDS!!! Well known dog owners? None other than Mother Theresa, Billy Graham, Martin Luther King, and even Jesus! Yes, even Jesus, son of God. How can you not like dogs better than cats when Jesus had one? What are you, SOME KIND OF HEATHEN!?!  
Dogs defend people: Have you heard of guard dogs? Don't you feel safer with a dog in the home? Even little dogs bark if someone tries to break in to give you a warning. Dogs = safety. What about cats? Did you ever see that Stephen King movie, "Cat's Eye"? In it, some people say cats steal people's breath. Is that what you want? To be sleeping and have some F#$%^#* cat STEAL YOUR BREATH!?! If so you deserve what you get!! What about man eating tigers? Have you heard of them? Do you want to be eaten by some f#$%!*^ species of cat? What are you, stupid???? Is that the type of behavior you want to reward in an animal?  
Posted @ Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:24 PM by dave
scratch out that night vision goggles part i meant to say that wolves can see 5 times better than an average house dog and 8 times better than a human
Posted @ Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:37 PM by jordan
come on guys lets be serious we all love dogs but they are simply badly designed fighters probably the worst of all large sized predators. Even an eagle could kill a wolf to even consider putting a wolf against a cougar wow you must be crazy because that wolf is getting his ass bitten off 99/100. Thats wolfs are pack animals because by themselves you would have them getting eaten up by all them bears, cougars, wolverines, coyotes, badgers and eagles. Think about it peace out.
Posted @ Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:54 AM by andrew
that has to be the dumbest statement i have ever EAGLE. are you SERIOUS.can an eagle take down a elk by itself-NO 
can it kill a cougar-NO 
a wolf will destroy a eagle.2t3hink before you type you dumbshit.and dogs are great fighters otherwise they would be extinct now. you are a dumb ass to believe a eagle would kill a wolf. you dissapoint me andrew you really do
Posted @ Monday, April 25, 2011 2:01 PM by jordan
plus its 50/50 for both the wolf and cougar.some cougars are dumber/smarter faster/slower stronger/weaker more agile/less agile than other cougars. they all arent the same. a wolf is taller and longer while the cat is heaver. plus if a eagle can kill a wolf WHICH IT CANT. A INLAN TAIPAN CAN KILL A COUGAR AND WOLF WITH ITS VENOM. SO CAN SOME TYPES OF SPIDERS. just because your bigger doesnt mean you always win so andrew really think before you post some dumbshit like that on this form again ok.
Posted @ Monday, April 25, 2011 2:11 PM by jordan
after extensive research i have concluded that the wolf is indeed the winner and the more fearsome beast.
Posted @ Monday, April 25, 2011 2:25 PM by jayson
Posted @ Monday, April 25, 2011 2:26 PM by danny
i dont believe jayson wrote that last post.i have given fact after fact and jay still never changed his mind. their is a imposter on here. i know jay said the cougar was the winner
Posted @ Tuesday, April 26, 2011 2:32 PM by jordan
jordan is right, I did not write that last post. I admit that I don't understand the mindset of someone who tries to impersonate other posters. 
Are their lives really so pathetic? 
At any rate, I'm gonna stop posting for awhile, maybe this sad little punk will get it out of his system. It was a good little debate we had, jordan. Perhaps we'll hook 'em up again over another battle. I'll be off for a month or two, so good luck to ya. 
And by the way; 
The Cougar WINS!!!
Posted @ Wednesday, April 27, 2011 2:50 AM by jayson
i think the wolf would win! size doesnt matter, if you stuck bruce lee in a ring with mike tyson, tyson would get pounded
Posted @ Sunday, June 26, 2011 5:31 PM by sam
my brother thinks that all huskys can fight cougars, reading all the comments i still think it is not true any couger could take down a husky.
Posted @ Saturday, July 02, 2011 1:37 AM by bill
Let's face the facts.The wolf hás more stamina.Also,the wolf is used to tangling with prey.What's more the wolf can smell the cat from a long distance away It knows what it's up against .The puma on the other hand is used to hunting animals that don't stand a chance of defending themselves.
Posted @ Wednesday, August 10, 2011 3:50 PM by Victor
Posted @ Wednesday, August 17, 2011 4:43 PM by REAL
Posted @ Wednesday, August 17, 2011 4:47 PM by REAL
oh. cmon guys. the cat is like 4 times stronger than the wolf. please. 2 inch retractable claws also make terrible lacerations. one on one the dog is doomed.
Posted @ Wednesday, August 17, 2011 4:49 PM by real
Interesting debate going on here. I'm also beside myself with grief because of the poor grammar in these responses. Oh, and one more thing: the words wolf and cougar do not need to be capitalized. It makes you look like a fool, and it's unnecessary.
Posted @ Sunday, September 04, 2011 10:45 PM by Fluffy
and a wolf can fight a couger and a tiger like i siad it can beleave or not.
Posted @ Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:30 PM by hannah sarvis
you better quit that stuff out because ill beat you and your pet because did you now im a fighter and i have a pack a 10 wolfs that can help me and ill prove it so quit it with the bad words 50 year old granda and you to.
Posted @ Monday, October 03, 2011 7:28 PM by hannah
u guys are all idiots if u think that these two pets are in a real fight,wolves and cougars both run away from each other in the woods this looks like my puppy dog wresting with my cat, also the two animals are familiar with each other 
Posted @ Thursday, November 03, 2011 10:30 AM by jesse
Cats are more agile than dogs...everyone knows that. If you see a dog and cat fight, surprisingly the cat wins and the dog walks away with claw marks everywhere.
Posted @ Friday, November 04, 2011 5:45 PM by khadija
the cougar is faster but the wolf could just tired it out wolves are aggresive and would esily just kill a cougar infact wolves have been kwown to kill cougars in the wild cougars sometimes even get killed by there prey such as angry bucks but wolves dont
Posted @ Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:01 PM by Jet380
Wolves are smarter strong tougher bettersenses stinima all you cat fans out there stop it dogs are aesome fighters cats just suck
Posted @ Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:09 PM by Jet380
The wolf would just kill the cougar cougars are smaller than wolves and also wolves have the most dirtiest bite than eny other wild animal so one bite bye bye stupid cat and becomes lunch for the dog
Posted @ Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:15 PM by Jet380
wolves will be caughing up cougar fur for monthes now the cats almost digested
Posted @ Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:21 PM by Jet380
DOGS RULE cats drule
Posted @ Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:23 PM by Jet380
cougars are cowards there was recently a story of a little terrier chasing a cougar away
Posted @ Saturday, November 12, 2011 9:27 PM by Jet380
Posted @ Sunday, November 13, 2011 11:26 AM by Jet380
I vote for the wolf for sure
Posted @ Sunday, November 13, 2011 11:31 AM by Jet380
my cat that is a pixie bob weighing 20lbs caught a 100 lb wolf last summer and killed it in 5 minutes, I think my cat was protecting me since it was in my backyard and I was in the jacuzzi... yep I had to bury that big mut and my cat was fortunate to be so mobile with dexterity and sharp claws and a wide jaw with massive muscles that the wolf didnt get a injury on my kitty so no need for the vet thanks goodness!
Posted @ Tuesday, December 13, 2011 12:50 PM by noaliasneeded
who said cougar is faster than wolf? they are same speed my fav animal is wolf wolf stronger jaws more stamina more pound for pound pulling an d lifting strength and maybe smarter cougar same speed more agile more weapons and solitary fighter however i think cougar win 60% and wolf 40% of times i know some pepole will say that a wolf is not pound for pound stronger but belive me its it because he wrestle the pray cougar set on the back off the pray and bite it a killing bite how ever i think cougar would wim most off times but in rare times wolf win  
Posted @ Sunday, January 01, 2012 1:32 PM by silverwolfx88
Someone wrote that a cougar weighs 4oolbs.. hahaha. Rarely do they grow beyond 200lbs. 
Cougar wins because it has 5 weapons and the wolf only has it's jaws.
Posted @ Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:23 PM by davethedog
Okay, all these stats and research assignments and debates aren't needed. As j col said, if it's simply a one-on-one fight, what would happen. That means leave out IF the wolf has a winter coat or IF the cougar can pounce on the wolf without knowing, and even IF the cougar on average is bigger or smaller, and pick a side. Myself, I would go wolf for the simple reasoning behind a human fight. It doesn't matter if you are better equipped for a fight, and stronger that your opponent, if the smaller guy can knock you out with one punch and he hits you faster than you hit him, it's his win. That is not to say that the cougar is some slow wimp who is just going to sit there and take it, but I just think that the wolf is more likely to get in that first shot. Should it land, the wolf gets victory. Should the wolf miss, the cougar will probably make him pay for it.  
And for the realists, if an animal is cornered, that means there is not a lot of manuverability, a cat's main strong point. Wolves don't really do a lot of that, relying more on endurance, so being cornered would probably work out better for the wolf. And regardless of time of year, both animals are probably going to get hurt, so the whole thing about what happens after the fight is irrelevant. Simply sticking with the fight, I have to choose Wolf.
Posted @ Friday, January 20, 2012 12:05 AM by Nari Ookami
once the wolf gets its sharp long teeth on the cougar its all over for the cat
Posted @ Friday, January 20, 2012 6:22 PM by Jet380
Posted @ Friday, January 20, 2012 6:25 PM by Jet380
Posted @ Friday, January 20, 2012 6:29 PM by Jet380 make wolves look so horrible! Wolves are very smart creatures that have one of the strongest bite pressures of any mammal. They certaintly would back down from a fight, and I personally think a wolf is smart enough to leave a mountain lion alone. 
GO WOLVES!!!!!!!
Posted @ Wednesday, January 25, 2012 9:14 PM by Emily
the wolf has anything for a long hunting run. 
- lot of endurance and social life. 
- a pack 
The cougar has anything for a solitary life. 
- more (a lot) strength (a cat is not a runner!...ever seen a marathonrunner with big muscles?) 
- more agility 
- faster 
- more and better weapons 
a cougar wins 10 from 10 fights. 
Every expert says that a cougar wins every 1:1 fight. 
Deal with the fact 
Canids are fine pack hunters, felines are perfekt 1 on 1 killers. 
Posted @ Monday, January 30, 2012 7:08 AM by furios
Why is it that just because wolves hunt in packs, cougar fans automatically count them out? The expression lone wolf didn't come from nowhere; they are perfectly capable of fighting and surviving without a pack, the pack just makes things easier. That's why certain FELINES also hunt in groups. And also, cougars may have more weapons, that is true, but better is not a factual statement. The one thing they have in common is teeth, and while the cougar is no slouch, the wolf has a stronger bite.
Posted @ Friday, February 03, 2012 1:50 PM by why_do_you_care?
a cougar can kill an animal with a skull bite. That's more than enough bit force. 
Every animal has it advantages. 
Pack behavior or solitary life style. 
You can not have anything in one body. 
It's like a warcraft char. 
You can not be healer, damage dealer, tank, sorcerer in one single char.  
Some canide fans thinks, a wolf is super strong, has a very big endurance, is fast, is agile, has a great social behaviour. (yes..some is a fact) 
Did you ever seen a marathon runner which is also a good weightlifter? 
A cougar buys a lot for his strength and good fighting skills. 
He must surive alone, any injury can be fatal. 
The life of a wolf can be easier, more animals for a hunt. In case of an injury, the animal can still eat. 
The hunting style is also different. A cougar makes a fast and brutal kill. 
A wolf makes a long chase and kills the prey together with his pack members. 
For a hunt, the wolf style is better. More success, less risky but the cougar style is much more similar to a figth. 
A cougar is much more adapted for a solitary life, he must be superior to survive. 
Posted @ Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:56 AM by @whfurios
Hmm. All these cougar fans say that wolves are smaller weaker and inferior to cougars. Funny, people always say that the biggest wolf evr was 175 pounds, but I've seen many pictures of wolves at 175 + pounds. (i can prove it too if you like.)And people also say that the biggest cougar was 276+ pounds yet i';ve never seen any pictures or proof of one that size!!!! ;)
Posted @ Wednesday, February 08, 2012 2:36 PM by me73
it's so easy...learn to use wikipedia and google.
Posted @ Thursday, February 09, 2012 12:53 PM by furios 
Here's one link
Posted @ Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:16 PM by Me73
And I do know very well that a single cougar will beat a single wolf in a fight. But believe me wolves will reach 200lb easy where I live.
Posted @ Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:18 PM by Me73
what are you talking about man? *sniff sniff....cougars can get up to 100,000,000 pounds and can take a bullet from an elephant gun easily..fuck they can survive atomic bombs..I love this website, right now I have my dick in my hand jacking off to these animals cuz i am a fucking freak that has no life so I get on this website and start jizzing all over the screen talking about animals girlfriend has a penis and she left me because i chose this website over her! wolves only weigh 1 gram! what the fuck are you guys talking about????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? hahahahahahahahahaha..oh god kill me!
Posted @ Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:34 PM by georgiethebadassmotherfucka
Really there is nothing to debate about here. 
Wolf vs cougar: cougar wins. Period. It is definitely not impossible for a wolf to win, but if you just research it you will see that the answer is very clear for who the winner usually is.
Posted @ Wednesday, February 15, 2012 2:00 PM by BlueJay
Those who say that single cougars can kill moose (which is true) and that wolves need packs in order to do it better think again. If you want to find out about wolves hunting prey read 
Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation by L. David Mech and Luigi Boitani 
It's on the first pages; it's not far
Posted @ Thursday, February 16, 2012 2:03 PM by Thinkagain 
Here's some pictures of these tiny puppies on a site that is extremely heavily biased against wolves. 
(Note: the top right pic of the huge wolf is not 200lb like some of the other wolves on the other pics. On the original website it says that the wolf was 175 pounds but the weight changed as it went all over the internet.)
Posted @ Friday, February 17, 2012 2:10 PM by whattheheck
Wolf wins. Its just the way it is. Think about it a cougar will just charge to kill but the wolf would think. Fight and stay or leave and be safe. If he stayed to fight he would know he had the chance.
Posted @ Friday, February 24, 2012 11:49 PM by +-gonae
Most wolfaboos will testify that wolves are superior to all other animals, but fail to provide actual facts (besides "they're awesome".) Wolves generally hunt in packs of 4-6; however, will surrender a carcass over to the larger, more powerful grizzly bear to avoid conflict.  
Most gray wolves are about 5 feet long and 3 feet in shoulder height, while a mountain lion can grow up to 9 feet long (including the tail), but are generally the same in shoulder height. Wolves may weight up to 80-90 pounds, while mountain lions can weigh up to 90-140 pounds. 
A full-grown mountain lion can definitely do much damage to a wolf. However, wolf packs will probably be able to keep the cat at bay for quite sometime. It will only be a matter of time before the wolves may grow particularly tired, however, and may retreat, though that's not to say the cougar won't lose.  
Mountain lions are also particularly aggressive towards humans and mountain lion attacks *have* occurred. Mongolian tribes use golden eagles to kill foxes and wolves, which really says something in regard to this fight. If eagles are capable of killing wolves, why not a large mountain lion (who can probably kill a golden eagle, no doubt?) 
Mountain lions are more heavily built and are very powerful creatures. A gray wolf, in my opinion, stands no chance. Though a pack is probably capable of beating a mountain lion (to a certain extent), I doubt they can physically kill it. They are simply not powerful enough to do so. If they *do* win, it'll probably only drive the cat away.
Posted @ Saturday, March 03, 2012 12:54 AM by Gigan737
Most wolfaboos will testify that wolves are superior to all other animals, but fail to provide actual facts (besides "they're awesome".) Wolves generally hunt in packs of 4-6; however, will surrender a carcass over to the larger, more powerful grizzly bear to avoid conflict.  
Most gray wolves are about 5 feet long and 3 feet in shoulder height, while a mountain lion can grow up to 9 feet long (including the tail), but are generally the same in shoulder height. Wolves may weight up to 80-90 pounds, while mountain lions can weigh up to 90-140 pounds. 
A full-grown mountain lion can definitely do much damage to a wolf. However, wolf packs will probably be able to keep the cat at bay for quite sometime. It will only be a matter of time before the wolves may grow particularly tired, however, and may retreat, though that's not to say the cougar won't lose.  
Mountain lions are also particularly aggressive towards humans and mountain lion attacks *have* occurred. Mongolian tribes use golden eagles to kill foxes and wolves, which really says something in regard to this fight. If eagles are capable of killing wolves, why not a large mountain lion (who can probably kill a golden eagle, no doubt?) 
Mountain lions are more heavily built and are very powerful creatures. A gray wolf, in my opinion, stands no chance. Though a pack is probably capable of beating a mountain lion (to a certain extent), I doubt they can physically kill it. They are simply not powerful enough to do so. If they *do* win, it'll probably only drive the cat away.
Posted @ Saturday, March 03, 2012 12:55 AM by Gigan737
Posted @ Thursday, March 15, 2012 1:41 PM by joey
IDIOTS! Did you not watch the video? 
Posted @ Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:25 PM by Cougar
In the REAL video the wolf shook of the cougar and the cougar ran away.
Posted @ Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:15 AM by gonae
A wolf has been known to attack bears that are to close ALONE. But this is only when it's to close. But anyway a big Alpha would give that cougar the fight of its life. It's true cougars fight bears but they almost always lose. It would be a close fight no doubt but the wolf would win. A wolf hunts in packs because it's EASIER not because their afraid you know.
Posted @ Thursday, April 12, 2012 3:22 PM by Gonae
wolves have a much stronger bite force of up to 1,500 pounds per square inch. it takes about 25 psi to crack an adult human rib. think about it. plus wolves have much more endurance than cats do. with every second that goes by a cougar loses 1% of it's chance to kill the wolf. trust me, i'm a north american predator specialist. in a fight between a similarly sized wolf and cougar, the wolf will take the cake about 7 out 0f 10 times.
Posted @ Friday, April 13, 2012 12:59 PM by roland
Posted @ Tuesday, April 24, 2012 6:08 PM by Rusty
why the video only 30 seconds?
Posted @ Tuesday, May 01, 2012 3:12 AM by pavel
Hey gonae! where is this full video. I've looked everywhere but have never found it and really want to see it, Do you know where I can find it?
Posted @ Tuesday, May 08, 2012 3:35 PM by Helpplease
People claim cougars win. People claim wolves win. Then they insist cougars win, and then wolves. Besides this little stage video that shows only the beginning of a fight, I have only seen two other videos of wolves chasing cougars off. Otherwise I have not seen any other video of any fights. There are no absolutely confirmed pictures and/or videos that show that cougars or wolves in, or that wolves never win, or that they sometimes win. Someone hast to actually get some evidence, then I will know rather than watching this silly debate where people say ridiculous things. HOW ABOUT SOME EVIDENCE????? And I also have yet to see a picture of a cougar larger than the largest wolves i've seen.
Posted @ Tuesday, May 08, 2012 3:47 PM by whattheheck
I don't know where it is but I saw it on commercial on animal planet.
Posted @ Friday, May 18, 2012 6:46 PM by gonae
Thanks gonae that helped a little. I wish someone would just post it on youtube
Posted @ Friday, May 25, 2012 1:29 PM by Helpplease
Wolves are great fighters and have more bite force and also more stamina
Posted @ Sunday, June 10, 2012 10:24 AM by rusty
cougars are bigger, smarter with sharper claws and teeth or in other ways they're cats
Posted @ Tuesday, August 07, 2012 1:43 PM by gavin
Smarter? Yeah right. I have never heard of any cougar doing the intelligent thing wolves do all the time. And even if cougars do win fights with single wolves, it doesn't make them more intelligent. Ridiculous. Wolves and cougars are intelligent in different ways. Wolves can learn to open doors and latches just by observing people. 
and bigger? Show me the pictures. I have yet to see a picture of a cougar bigger than the biggest wolves.
Posted @ Tuesday, August 28, 2012 2:48 PM by Really
Cougars are only like 200lb tops wolf stalks and either crushs its leg and tears it to shreds or hangs on its throat until its death
Posted @ Wednesday, August 29, 2012 12:24 PM by guest
Here is the end of the discussion.I have watched many videos that includes Golden eagles killing wolves, at least 5 videos I have watched.And you can see, a cougar can clearly kill golden eagle, and you can even see a bobcat attacks a golden eagle. 1 on 1, sorry wolf, you have no chance.For, there is another video that cougar takes down a wolf in youtube, I'm not sure if it is real, but probably, that's what it is going to happen when these two predators come face to face.
Posted @ Thursday, August 30, 2012 4:00 AM by Troll Hunter
I am always doubtful about these 'eagle kills wolf'thing. Many videos show the eagle swooping at the wolf, and then the scene switches to a dead wolf. Almost never shows any killing. I even read on one article wolf hunting with eagles doesn't generally work unless the wolf is on a short chain. Secondly, half of the wolves shown are pups and the others do not look big at all. The wolves who live in my area are not about to be killed by one puny eagle, no matter how strong the bird. Thirdly, how do eagle vs wolf videos show that cougars kill wolves as easily as they kill deer? How does one eagle vs cougar video prove anything? And why on all the confirmed videos I have watched about wolf vs cougar the cougar is so keen on running away from a lone wolf? The only way to prove whether a cougar or wolf wins is to get at least a few videos of a fight to the death in the wild.
Posted @ Friday, August 31, 2012 2:21 PM by Hang 'im
and one more thing. Wolves kill bobcats and even lynx without it even being considered a fight. Sooooooooo ridiculous to think a wolf is no match for an eagle.
Posted @ Friday, August 31, 2012 2:23 PM by Hang 'im
and one more thing. Wolves kill bobcats and even lynx without it even being considered a fight. Sooooooooo ridiculous to think a wolf is no match for an eagle.
Posted @ Friday, August 31, 2012 2:23 PM by Hang 'im
and one more thing. Wolves kill bobcats and even lynx without it even being considered a fight. Sooooooooo ridiculous to think a wolf is no match for an eagle.
Posted @ Friday, August 31, 2012 2:24 PM by Hang 'im
Please do not deny the videos, because they are the strongest proofs we could have.And in those videos, there are fully grown wolves too.And yes, I still think a cougar can easily kill a wolf,It may run away unless it has a cub, or hungry.Cougar is superior in all ways for an alone wolf.
Posted @ Sunday, September 02, 2012 3:25 AM by Troll Hunter
Those wolves are no doubt adults on some of the videos, but I notice they are a fair bit smaller than an adult man. And notice that the wolf isn't fighting back, but trying to fl. If the wolf fought, good bye eagle. But the wolf knows humans are nearby. Sort of like a wolf or cougar running from a couple coyotes, orfor example, you ran from a big aggressive dog and didn't fight back. But how does that prove anything when the wolf isn't even fighting back? Notice that eagles don't just prey on wolves in the wild. If the wolf could only watch helplessly as it was ripped apart,wolves would be part of the eagles diet.
Posted @ Monday, September 03, 2012 7:46 PM by Someone
The truth about Wolf Hunting with eagles 
The use of raptors in the hunting of wolves is primarily practised in Central Asia. The Kyrgyz people have traditionally used Golden Eagles, known as berkut, to hunt wolves. In the past, wolf pelts provided material for clothes crucial for the survival of the nomadic people in the severe colds. The eagles are used to immobilise the wolves by placing one foot at the back of the neck and another at the flank closer to the heart and lungs. Hunters usually only use eagles against cubs, seeing as an adult wolf can cripple in combat even a highly experienced eagle. Losing even one toe or talon will significantly lower the eagle's ability to tackle prey. Only a minor injury to the sinew of a foot may leave the eagle incapable of further hunting. As a wolf is capable of resisting even the best-trained bird, the falconer always keeps near, ready at the first opportunity to help the eagle. This is done carefully, as the wolf, sensing human presence, fights desperately to tear loose from the bird’s talons, and the eagle can be severely injured or killed. Because of the violent nature of their work, eagles trained to hunt wolves have shorter life spans.
Posted @ Wednesday, September 05, 2012 4:02 PM by they came and saw
Were supposed to be talking about wolf vs cougar. Talk about wolf vs eagle somplace else.
Posted @ Wednesday, September 05, 2012 4:09 PM by Glue
thats not an alpha male wolf thats an old female wolf vs a young male puma
Posted @ Tuesday, November 27, 2012 5:57 PM by wolffan
this sucks dick
Posted @ Thursday, December 06, 2012 12:55 PM by kyle
Wolves are smarter than cougers and have a larger bite force wolves will win but they think the wolves will lose any fight but wolves are stronger than cougers
Posted @ Wednesday, January 02, 2013 9:39 PM by Izabelle
wolf are just like dogs they are smarter then mountain lions there for the wolf would totaly destroy the gray wolf
Posted @ Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:13 AM by david
i mean the wolf will destroy the lion the smarter animal allways wins not the biiger!
Posted @ Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:17 AM by david
i dont know what some of you people are thinking but the wolf will totally win in a fight with a stupid cougar
Posted @ Monday, March 18, 2013 6:37 AM by brandon
I can't determine for sure which animal would actually win because I'm certainly no animal expert, but people need to stop painting wolves as the "superior" creatures they are often made out to be. Simply because an animal operates in packs, does not mean they are more adept hunters. I could very well imagine a mountain lion having the upperhand.
Posted @ Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:25 PM by Mowalski
"and one more thing. Wolves kill bobcats and even lynx without it even being considered a fight. Sooooooooo ridiculous to think a wolf is no match for an eagle." 
Are you kidding me? Some house cats grow as big as bobcats. Are you comparing an eagle to something as small as that? Pathetic. 
Golden eagles in Mongolia have been proven to demolish wolves. It's not about who's stronger, in this case, but more about who has the advantage. 
Posted @ Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:33 PM by Mowalski
A wolf has over 2500 LBS of crushing power in their jaws that is equal to breaking the femur of a moose or elk in ONE bite. Dogs always have the advange over cats because of jaw strength, whatever that dog gabs hold of is going to break and or get ripped off.
Posted @ Monday, April 22, 2013 7:32 PM by Lockie
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Posted @ Monday, May 20, 2013 10:28 AM by billy bob joe
a wolf and a cougar is one my number 2 and 3 fav animals. But a cougar will win with no doubt. If you guys check up on the pitbull vs bobcat thread, it is funny as hell. They brought in the cougar at the middle to the end of the debate. Some ppl agree that a true gamedog can truly destroy any cougar or wild animal which I disagree.
Posted @ Wednesday, August 14, 2013 9:06 PM by JAYCEE HANGKID 
end of discussion
Posted @ Thursday, August 15, 2013 2:34 AM by Connect
"Are you kidding me? Some house cats grow as big as bobcats. Are you comparing an eagle to something as small as that? Pathetic." 
The largest recorded cat is 35 pounds. Bobcats can occasionally weigh over 45. And uh, lynx can be quite a bit larger than eagles. They can often weigh 65 pounds in northern canada and measure 5 feet long. 
And the wolves is mongolia are not large at all. They are 65 - 70 pounds, so it's no wonder trained eagles can get them.
Posted @ Monday, September 02, 2013 3:53 PM by janeandwho??
Flip a coin on this one. The wolf is slower, I can say that, the Cougar is sneaky and a bit faster. If I had to flip a coin, Cougar heads, Wolf tails. Opps, It is a 2 headed coin. Cougar wins.
Posted @ Sunday, September 08, 2013 10:32 PM by docwyatt
Straight up this is a close match, favoring the best still hunter in the business - the cougar. In reality, the wolf pack will own it, and the cougar will flee or die
Posted @ Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:26 AM by Johnny Football
a wolf never fights alone it fights in packs so it could beat a mountain lion
Posted @ Tuesday, May 20, 2014 6:30 PM by hip
wtf? we are talking about 1on1 matches! 
Posted @ Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:15 AM by suki
I don't understand why some people can't seem to grasp concept of a one-on-one fight. It's Cougar vs. Wolf, NOT Cougar vs. Wolf pack. So let's look at this in terms of REALITY. On average, a big Tom Cougar will out-weigh an Alpha male Wolf, by 25-30 lbs, maybe a little more.Forget about the fact the Cougar is Quicker and more agile. The overall factor that decides this fightt, is the superior strength of the cougar, and the way it makes a kill. Because the Cougar is an ambush predator, it relies on speed and strength to make a kill. Since it doesn't have the stamina for a prolonged chase, it relies on stealth to get as close as it can to it's prey, and then uses a a quick burst of speed, to overcome the remaining gap. Then it uses it's power to overcome the prey, gripping and holding it down, while it applies a killing bite. On smaller prey, it can crush the spinal cord at the base of the neck from the back. on larger prey, it can cut the blood flow in the carotid arteries, from the front. In order to do THAT it has to be strong enough to hold down large prey, and that's where the Cougar's massive shoulder and foreleg muscles, come into play. These muscles are not just designed to hold prey down, but also manipulate prey into position, at the point of impact, for that killing bite. and we're talking about Prey that is sometimes three to four times the weight of a Wolf. Quite simply, the Wolf just doesn't have the strength to fight the Cougar off. The Cougar is a juggernaut that will go straight for the neck, and the Wolf has very little chance of stopping it. The Cougar is just too strong and too quick, and it is a killing machine. I have never heard any wildlife expert say that a lone wolf has much of a chance against a Cougar, but I've heard many say that a Cougar will kill a lone Wolf, in a confrontation.
Posted @ Saturday, July 19, 2014 1:21 AM by Jayson
Hands down the mountain lion, a full grown mountain lion would shred a wolf or any dog to pieces in seconds, it's not a theory, its a fact. I don't even care if u disagree, that just means your wrong. :) But i prefer to see them as God's beautiful creatures than fighting machines.
Posted @ Sunday, October 05, 2014 7:42 PM by Lilliana Fox
But yeah, thanks for spending time to discuss this topic here on your website. 
Posted @ Thursday, October 23, 2014 5:57 AM by gemplers coupon
Jokes on you, when people get to be acting smart with me i just ignore them,thanks for spending time to discuss this topic here on your website.
Posted @ Thursday, October 23, 2014 4:57 PM by Lilliana Fox
I say one on one, mountain lion, always, but a pack of wolves, my money would be on the wolves
Posted @ Friday, October 24, 2014 9:51 PM by Lilliana Fox
@Lilliana Fox 
And..we are still talking about 1on1 fights..understand this! 
-100 rats would destroy any wolf 
-1000 ferrets would kill a lion 
-10000 badgers would kill an elephant 
go away with your pack..this says nothing
Posted @ Saturday, October 25, 2014 2:59 AM by Sput
Well ya I agree with you, like I said mountain lion would win one on one don't get mad
Posted @ Sunday, October 26, 2014 3:22 PM by Lilliana Fox
Too simple: one-on-one cougar has wolf for dinner - wolf pack vs cougar, no contest, wolves have cougar for dinner.
Posted @ Sunday, February 01, 2015 6:31 AM by Old Ephraim
I think the cougar would win for sure
Posted @ Saturday, September 12, 2015 6:55 PM by catmandoo
The only animal I know of that consistently holds its own against big cats is a bear. Even a small, juvenile black bear is able to defend and scare away a fully mature mountain lion. In close quarters, the lion isn't able to find it's usual success against the bear. Unlike other animals, the bear can claw back and out wrestle the cat. Bears have unusually thick necks that take away the number one, instinctual killing means of cats. It's pretty obvious that a grizzly will dominate any cat, but it's surprising to see how adeptly smaller black bears are able to fend off mountain lions even after being ambushed.
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Posted @ Friday, November 20, 2015 9:01 AM by Adriana
Seriously!?! This shouldn't even be a debate. Just like with every living thing (except of course for plant life for those specific assholes) one can never know? Size doesn't always matter and neither does skill or smarts. Everything plays factors one may be having a off day, while the other is not. One maybe a bit more passive than the other one (cause within every species there is some that are more passive than the others in there group. not all of them are Alphas). One may have more smarts and experience than the other on. Way to many factors to say either way. Basically and simply Just depends on their day..."is it their day to lose or their day to win?"
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