Wow I never knew killer whales were that strong. 
 

wow that killer wale is beast man and stop bein mean to each other its a photo !!!!!!!!!!!!!

wow i dont belive disssss the killer whale beat a shark so that means that sharks are stupid

in the video the great white was 15ft and the killer whale was 30ft so it wasnt a fair fight

i dont like sharks and i believe the orca can beat the great white any day.

I'd like to see Orca vr Sergio

Hey jackass, 
 
Great White's don't grow 30 feet long. It isn't the Orca's fault the Great White is a shrimp. :) 
 

There isn't much of a fight here. The only advantage the shark has is the ability to breath underwater, although it has to keep moving to breath, but the the shark would have to get lucky to win.

The killer whale is the largest and strongest in the dolphin family, and it is the fastest of the marine mammals, it can be up to 32 ft and up to 8 tons 
The great white shark is the largest predatory fish, it has many teeth than the orca, a shark measures 13-16 ft but some reported sharks that up to 36 ft and weighing 2 tons(matching the orca) 
I think the winner will be the shark because it dont need to breath out of the water unlike the orca.

why are you guys keep tryin to fight an animal to animal..we should be friends..we should not start a fight..if they will sacrifice...animals are god's gift to us..we should never hurt them...if people doesn't want animals hurting us we should not hurt them too!! they are animals!!they have feeling like us!! they have the right to live in this planet not only us!! SO we should be friendly to animals...we should give them the right we have!!

great white shark can kick some @$$ bein 23ft and a bite force of 1 ton psi the shark rules dat ocan let me giv it 4 ya sharky

this is really stupid who cares witch animal would win. God didnt put animals on earth so we could debate on which one would win.

Experience,size and speed becomes a factor and even intelligents can be an issue.Killer whales actually kill whales that are alot larger them ,even though other orcas help.The orca is alot larger smarter and faster then the shark.Orcas kill great whites for the liver.I never heard of a great white killing an orca.Great whites kill animals smaller then themselves and leave larger animals alone.Great whites dont hunt orcas.Orcas hunt great whites.An orca will kill a great white because of its size and experience and strength.Orca vs shark is like lion vs lepeord because size does matter.

Let me start by saying that these two awsome animales do NOT normaly pray upon each other on any regular basis. In most cases they tend to avoid each other.  
 
 
 
Second, GWs do not normaly get anywhere near the size of average adult KWs. I will say though that all the vidos ive seen of KWs killing GWs are those of a 25ft+ KW attacking a 10-12ft GW. With that size diffrence the shark didnt have a chance in hell.  
 
 
 
There have been reports of KW carcasses washing up on shore with massive bite wounds matching GW bites. If such reports are true it only means the GW fed on the whale and doesnt mean the shark killed it. 
 
 
 
The Hunting tatics GW normaly employ center around surprise. To help it catch faster moveing pray and minmize the damage it might take from a more "frontal" attack.  
 
Any attack on a KW would result in a very risky fight for even the largest GWs.  
 
 
 
If a 20ft great white came across a lone same-size KW it would have the "ability" to kill it if it where hungery enough and had the moment of surprise. But i think it would more then likely avoid the KW and go after easier less dangerous pray. 
 
 
 
With all that being said, Even though im a big fan of the Great White i think that a Lone Killer whale would win 9-out of 10 fights with even a Large Great White. 
 
 
 
These animales are not gladiators and dispite there reputations as Killers they Kill to survive and not to be the "bad ass" of the ocean. They dont think that way and they dont operate that way and more often then not both these predators will go after the easiest meals not each other.  
 
 
 
After all why would you go hand to hand with a bull when you could get your cheeseburger from Micky Ds LOL.

greta white sharks are more than capable than killing an overgrown seaworld dolphin i mean most people arnt scaerd of a little dolphin but great white sharks are 5,000 pounds of musel and pure kick ass attitude and hate. a gw shark can serioulsy smoke a killer whale

Wow. EVERY post on here is littered with incorrect spelling. LEARN to spell BEFORE you post! 
 
Dumb asses...

shark is better.

sharks are the best!!!!!: )

Some of you say the great white can breath in the water,well that is true but the shark has to keep moving or it will die,if the shark gets stunned just a little then the shark will drown.Water has to move through the sharks gills for it to recieve oxygen.So that is the advantage the Orca has.The orca every 45 minutes needs to breath air above the water so as soon as it gets air like it always does before a fight or to get food it does not need water to flow through the gills it just hold its breath.Orca dont have gills anyways but when they fight the orca holds its breath for 45 minutes and the shark cant,if the shark stops moving for a few minutes he will start getting weak which gives the orca another advantage.

i know that sharks can easily kill gay ass orcas, only that in thi video, the orca was much bigger, if they were the same sze, the gws would kick the orca's ass easily......so all you orca lovers are dumbasses who dont appreciate sharks

Miguel....Go Kill Yourself! 
 
 
 
Killer Whales are not only bigger, but they are mammals which means they're smarter, they also hunt in packs and will tear a shark to shreds! 
 
 
 
The shark is nothing but a big dumb fish!!

Exactly. We are talking mammal vs. fish here. Not only is the killer whale far more intelligent than the great white, it is also much bigger, faster, and stronger with bigger teeth. It is definately not wrong at all to think that the Killer Whale is perfectly capable of destroying the great white with ease. As for all of you that stated that the Killer Whale isn't a match for a Great White, I suggest you get the facts before you argue according to which animal you like better. Great White Sharks may be famous for their predatory skills, and may seem like they are the strongest of all, but the truth is, that there are in fact animals out there that are above them in the food chain. The orca is the obvious winner. If there are still people that think great whites are the best after reading this, well, that's just unfortunate.

Miguel, even if the great white was the same size as the killer whale, it wouldn't give it that many advantages. The killer whale is a exceptionally intelligent animal and uses stratagies and problem solving. Just making the shark bigger isn't necessarily going to result in it becoming stronger. The killer whale is going to find a way to kill the shark one way or the other. And btw, do you have a problem with orca lovers? If that's the case, then all you shark lovers are dumbasses that don't appreciate orcas. If you think a shark could beat a killer whale, then apparently you are the dumbass here. 

For everyone that is choosing the winner only because you like it please look at the facts: 
.great white sharks grow to a max of 25 ft 
.killer whales grow to a max of 35ft 
.no killer whales teeth are not larger than great white sharks own but because of their size the bite would have more of an effect 
.killer whales are MUCH smarter than great whites so sneak attacks are almost impossible 
.killer whales often have young to protect so that makes them more aggressive than normal 
.sharks are indeed fast but killer whales are not only fast but also have more stamina due to the fact that they tend to swim against the current in order to chase one of its favorite prey (penguins) 
.the killer whale's intelligence, 
power, and need to win drives it harder than its ferocious counter-part  
As a zoologist I don't really like this topic of discussion but I must stop this uninformed chaos. 
Trust me I have done my homework. I have majored in marine biology and minored in biochemistry. Who am I you may ask? I am the ghost of Steve Irwin aka the Crocodile Hunter. So don't fuck with me bitches.MWAHAHAHAHAHA. But seriously I am a marine biologist.

the facts are totally screwed up considering a great white hunts allone and is very well equiped for the assult it is the greatest killed in the ocean these to animal do not normally hunt each other no doubt if there were both to become face to face witha orca in a pod the great white has no chance but if a great white and a cora wer to become face to face alone they proably would try and stay well away from each other there is no question the orca would stand nooooo chance

of course the orca wins!!! it's bigger!!! but about the video the shark in there wasn't big!!! in fact the orca was about 20 feet and the shark about 10 feet!!! so c'mon!!! that wasn't even a fair fight!!! i read about the video in some page!!! orcas won't be stupid to atack a 20 feet shark all alone, c'mon, orcas are too smart to do that!!! and a shark will never geat near to the orca!!! they are not really smart, but they are not stupid either!!! stop the fight!!! i mind, does it really matter???...

The orca would rip the shark to shreds.

First off, you can't say "What if they were the same size?" They're not. Take an average male Orca and and average male Great White, and the Orca kills and eats it within minutes. That's a no-brainer. 
 
But what I really wanted to say is that these two animals are NOT the biggest and baddest in the ocean. You're all forgetting the Sperm Whale, the largest whale with teeth, which can grow larger than 50 feet, hold its breath for an hour, dive to thousands of feet, and snacks on Giant Squid and old-timey boats and their sailors for lunch. 
 
A Sperm Whale would own either of these contestants, and it wouldn't even be close. With its blubber and sheer size, bites wouldn't effect it much if the smaller animals could even get their mouth around anything to bite. And the whale's huge mouth would grab the smaller animals and drag it down a couple thousand feet with its tremendous strength, drown it, and then gobble it down. 
 
Fight over.

Everyone seems to not truely know who would win. Alot of people are saying that it's great white, but more are saying orca. Orca would defidently win and if you guys are saying shark would then you're just in denile that a shark could be weaker than anything. 
 
 
 
Orca has brains, strenth, size, and also has huge teath. Where shark simply have teeth, strength less than orcas, and size thats still smaller than orcas.

Killer whales have teeth 12 to 15 cm long with a diameter of 5 cm at the base of the gums.  
 
Moreover, it is not the length that counts, but the weight! Up to 24 250 pounds for orca and the great white shark until 8800. This is an important difference too. If you take a great white shark 23 feet and 23 feet of killer whale is the weight difference that will change everything. A large white 23 feet weigh 8 800 pounds and a 23 feet Orca weigh 12 800 pounds! So it's very risky than white, however powerful, tackles a killer whale! Unless the killer whale was taken by supprise, it will always be major advantages in shark incomparable intelligence, speed, jaws more powerful (but less effective than those of white) ... 
 
The great white shark might be impressive, but faced with a killer whale, it has only 1 in 10 chance to win! A white shark 20 feet, against a killer whale of 15 feet, then ok, the white shark is the winner! 
 
Orca BIG WINS! 
 
PS : sorry for my english ! I am french !

Scietist are so stupid. If they really wanted to know why dont they just make a large pool and put a Orca and a Great White together.

That's because they're freaks who don't want any of the animals to get harmed just for our entertainment. 
 
 
 
I don't give a shit if one of them gets harmed, there's millions of these animals in the oceans!

Actually there have been two great whites caught and released of giant proportions-one was 31 ft long and 6400 lbs and the second was 29 ft 3/4 in and weighed in at 7,500 lbs off the coast of cuba!! They released both sharks as they now have been protected for several years. There have been records of some that have measured 37 ft in the late 1800's-baby Megalodons? Don't know, but I think killer whales would win as they are larger and hunt in pods in a way exactly like wolves.

Seriously. One of the reasons there have only been one reported attack between the two is because it rarely happens. 
 
 
 
Orcas move in pods like wolves in a pack. And like wolves that do everything as a team, Orcas work as a team. A Great White Shark may mostly think on instinct, but it is definately smart enough to stay away from one Orca, let alone a pod of them. 
 
 
 
The famous Orca from California named CA2 was shown to specifically kill the shark just for it's liver. This alone shows that we have really little knowledge of the behavior of the Orca. The Orcas intelligence is no comparison to the Great White Shark as some have already stated. A Orcas eating habits, how they communicate, and how they hunt are barely known. A Orca is a complex animal, and a far more superior animalas far as intellegance and size. 
 
 
 
Honestly there is nothing to debate on this. 
 
 
 
All of us see all these shark specials on television and it is easy to become a "fan" of the shark. 
 
 
 
But if you have ever seen a Orca practically beach itself to catch a seal, you will learn rather quickly that the Orca hunts on fined tuned precision.

orca is obviously better and there is no actuall measurement of a great white shark reaching over 23 ft the largest great white shark ever caught was 24 ft caugtht in 1975 of cuba  
 
a killer whale has sonar that dazes fish which will confuse sharks meaning an easy meal for orca 
 
there is no reason to debate on this orca will win every time its larger, faster, stronger, and smarter 

The Orca would win. It's larger, faster, and stronger. The Orca is warmblooded and Great Whites are not, also giving them the advantage of more energy. AND Orcas are badass, Great Whites may rip people to shreds but a full size Orca could probably swallow a human whole. 
 
And for anyone that is lookin at the Orcas at Sea World for reference, shut up. Because, those animals are bred in captivity and specially trained.

The Orca would win. It's larger, faster, and stronger. The Orca is warmblooded and Great Whites are not, also giving them the advantage of more energy. AND Orcas are badass, Great Whites may rip people to shreds but a full size Orca could probably swallow a human whole. 
 
And for anyone that is lookin at the Orcas at Sea World for reference, shut up. Because, those animals are bred in captivity and specially trained.

Google or search youtube and type "Orca hunts seal" "Killer Whale eats seal" etc... 
 
 
 
They way they hunt is amazing. All pods of Orcas hunt differently. Some just eat other mammels and some eat just fish. And all pods use different techniques to hunt. This alone makes the Orca at a level the shark can't come close to. 
 
 
 
Absolutely nothing to compare.

that does mean anything the two top predators of their kind were going after the same seal. also how do we know the filmwas not edited because orcas hunt in groups so for allwe know there could have been three or more orcas fighting one great white. another thing is how many times have you ever heard of these two beasts crossing paths inthe oceans. also when a great white is hunting like it was in that video it can reach uptoand sometimes over 40mph sothe orca would not have a chance to grab the shark inthe middle because it whould have been moving to fast. that is why the great white shark is the ultimate killing machine and can take on an orca

KENNY U ARE A FUCKING IDIOT  
 
 
 
LIKE MY BRO JONH SAID ORCAS HUNT IN GROUPS IFTHEY HUNT ALONE THE GREAT WHITE SHARK COULD PICK IT OFF AND THE ORCA WOULD BE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FOOD CHAIN WHEN IT COME TO THE OCEAN PREDATORS  
 
 
 
AND FOR ALL YOU OTHER ORCA LOVER EVEN THOUGH THE GREAT WHITE IS SMALLER IT DOES NOT TO EAT AS MUCH AS THE KILLER WHALE DOES SO WHEN THE ORCASMAIN FOOD SUPPLY IS GONE THEN WHAT HAPPENS SO IT LOOKS LIKE THE ORCA IS SCREWED WHEN ITS FOOD RUNS OUT

Oh, your brother JOHN said? Well, he's the world's foremost marine biologist... 
 
Somewhere in that inarticulate, insulting rant of yours, you said the shark would "pick it off" and the orca would be at the "bottom of the food chain." Both of these claims are very wrong. Killer whales, both singly and in groups, regularly prey on white sharks. It's well-documented, unlike your inane ravings or the scientific prowess of your brother John. 
 
I suggest you read a little before you start cursing at people.

Actually, they don't "regularly" go after great whites, as it presents risks to the hunting orca and has rarely been documented as happening. Its only occurred when they both have went for the same prey item.

The thing about the Sperm Whale, well guess what, dumbass, there have been records of killer whale attacks on freaking sperm whales, idiot. Just because its big and has teeth it doesn't mean that it's automatically the top of the ocean. In fact, it's not even the biggest whale. Let me ask you, have you ever heard of a BLUE WHALE? Yes, that's right, it's even bigger, isn't it? But it still doesn't make it the top of the foodchain! If you really want to know what is, then, I suggest you read through this whole pointless "debate" and find out that the Killer Whale is obviously winning... WOW! What a surprise!  
It's a sad argument, really. It's people that use their brain and have the facts versus fools that just choose which one they like better and randomly throw out "facts" and try to make their animal look better (while utterly failing). So people that fall into that category, I have something to say to you... Get a freaking life!  
 
So... feel free to do your "just got owned" dance now. GOOD DAY.

Killer whales are typically longer and heavier than white sharks.  
 
However, killer whales have been found beached with bites taken out of them by white sharks. Now, if there wasn't anything else that killed the whale -- as in, another whale -- it seems logical that the shark did. It is curious that you find the remains with only one bite, though; maybe the whale didn't have enough fat content. Or maybe there were other killer whales around. 
 
White sharks usually kill by surprise, so any attack would likely be from beneath, and probably on a vital mechanism of propulsion, like the tail. I haven't heard of white sharks killing by biting off the tail and waiting for the prey to be weakened, but makos do that, and they're in the same family. 
 
White sharks also have a higher muscle content, and thus higher maximum speed and possibly force than killer whales. Look for videos of them "breaching".  
 
It also isn't entirely true that white sharks are cold blooded; white sharks, along with makos, maintain a body temperature about 10-12 degrees above ocean-temperature.  
 
But in a head-on encounter, without any element of surprise, a killer whale would have the advantage; simply because it is normally bigger. Although white sharks are probably more maneuverable.

AJ!! Before you call somebody a fucking idiot, you better learn how to spell first! And your brother John's a FAGGOT!! You have beef? What's up then bitch! 
 
 
 
A Great White, even if he found a lone killer whale, wouldn't go in for the attack, because if he tried he'd get his ass stomped to the bottom of the ocean! Like I said, a shark is nothing but a big dumb fish!

I dare somebody to fuck with me right now, I'm NOT in a good mood!!

http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/article.cfm?issueid=70&articleid=991

No no !!! 
 
The Orcas have been found stranded with shark bites does not mean they were killed by them! In fact, it was Orcas end of life or very young, and never in good health. 
 
If you think better, you will see that no single predator alone would tackle another predator bigger than him is suicide! can orca not be taken by surprise with their extremely fine hearing and echolocation. 
 
And sorry to say, but what matters is intelligence! The white shark, even a big, crazy is going to compete with a predator super intelligent! 
 
Groups of orcas were probably slaughtered megalodon, I am certain. After all, when we know that a group of killer whale attacked a group of 9 adult sperm whales, I see no reason why they would fear megalodon! Especially as the Orcas knows the weak point of sharks: the belly! 
 
Another thing: we have never timed a shark white more than 45 km / h! While the killer whale was timed to almost 60 km/h! 
 
Another thing that is true, a shark can not fight more than a few minutes! That's why he attacked quickly with a first bite, waiting for its prey dies. While with the Orcas, they fight more than 6 hours against a prey!

Orcas certainly did NOT cause extinction of Megoladon, the world's premier super-predator. The other way around is more likely to happen if they met, as Megalodon hunted whales. Orcas killing Megalodon is preposterous beyond belief! There has never been a predator in this world as awesome as mighty Meg.

What exactly are we looking at in this hacked-up clipings

if they came face to face a orca would put up a fight and ingure the shark but the shark would definatley win

Dudes, none of them would win if they came across a WHALESHARK!!! 
 
 
 
(Hey someone had to finally make a smartass comment right?)

i can't believe how lame some of these comments are...

of course they're lame comments, nobody on here knows what they're talking about! And they like to bitch too! 
 
 
 
Let me hit yall with some facts! 
 
Great Whites have died from Orcas, and Orcas have died from Great Whites. That's the TRUTH behind this whole scheme. They're an even fight. 
 
 
 
 
 
If one is bigger than the other, then the bigger one would win, on average, the Orca is bigger and stronger, but that doesn't mean that they ALWAYS win!! There have been some monster sized sharks out there, especially GW's!! 
 
 
 
I wouldn't bother betting on this fight. I'd keep my money in my wallet.

ill fuck with ya kenny >:) 
 

also wondering if some one can make up some new ones its kinda boring argueing over the same shit 
 
emporer scorpion vs galiath bird eating spider 
 
leopard vs cougar 
 
saltwater crocodile vs grizzly bear

You do not know how many times I've asked this guy Al to add new fights in, maybe he just abandoned his own site lol.

oh yeah, Kenny... 
 
Who the FUCK would be scared of you? lolol!!!

Frankie, you better watch who the fuck you talk to, you don't know me! I am a 6'3" bodybuilder and I as you can see, I have a short temper, so don't fuck with me or you will get hurt! And billy bob thornton, shut the fuck up!! I'll hurt you too!

its a joke dude chill the fuck out and in anycase i studie martial arts im trained in fighting ur trained in streangth just chill out man shit. lol silly prick

orca still wins some one get more fights hell how about me an kenny have a fight and vidio tape it lol would b better then some of these animal fights ere most r fake and that gorrila one vs bear toy match was stupid

my money is on me btw lol my brother is taller then u at 6ft6 and has been to jail countless times he would fight better and i take him out in 3 swift moves case closed and control that anger of urs buddie it wont do u any good i wish u luck on that 
 
 
 
p.s. learnt to take a joke 
 

Kenny, you don't scare me one fucking bit! I'm only 5 foot 8, but i will put your big ass in a choke hold and knock you out! I aint kidding!! 
 
 
 
Your mouth wrote a check; but your ass can't cash! And Billy Bob is right, how about me and you go at it! 
 
 
 
Square up to me and you're fucked, no joke!

exactly frankie im 5ft 10 and 154lbs he may be a tad bigger but bodybuilding dosent mean he can fight lol me vs him would b a cougar vs a slightly bigger ram he has only his fists that he knows i have more weapons ie feet knees elbows fists and head i want the prick to even try lol. the way how he acts with his anger is like a kid going through hormonal changes like a kid i seriously doubt he is that tall and a body builder a true man knows fighting isnt worth it

Yeah you're right man, this shit wouldn't be worth it. 
 
 
 
But if you really want to fight Kenny, I have no problem with it at all, my address is 102 Silverbay lane apartment #610, I live in Lake Jackson, Texas. Do you really think you can intimidate me? Lol. 
 
 
 
I'm a boxer, I like pain Kenny! lol. 
 
 
 
...anyways, billybob, what kind of martial arts you in?

mixed acualy. ive done karatedo with 8th dan shihan pat makean made it to black got half way through tai kwon do and curently studing ninjutsu thinking about mixing all 3 styles with a kick boxing form and creating my own style thank u for asking frankie, boxing is cool btw ^_^

That sounds pretty badass!! What would you call it btw? 
 
 
 
I've noticed that kenny hadn't been commenting us back ;) 
 
 
 
That was fucked up though, imagine waking up at 5 in the morning (it's still dark out) and getting on your computer and reading that ignorant shit directed towards you 
 
by some guy named "KENNY" ,wtf 
 
 
 
alot of these fights they have on here are stupid, I sometimes wonder why I get on lol.

lol frankie agreed nothing would b worse then that. there is a cat stance in karate and its probably my fav its almost boxer in shape with most the wieght on ur back leg so u can have a fast front kick should ur openet strike fast and push him back away. my favorite animals r the cougar and the scorpion. theres a mythical creature called the manticore which is part lion and scorpion and is the only mythical creature that has both cat and scorpion parts. id prolly call my style manticore fist or manticore ninpou one of the two not sure yet..be a wile to i create it as a fully functional style.but it will have speed influences of ninjutsus (like a cat) and dangerous mid to long rage strikes(karate and kick boxing) it will b something i truly want to do. yea that admin needs to get back and start up some better fights lol too one sided most of the time u can add me on yahoo if u wish

i forgot to add scorpion to the kickboxing and karate part lol

u chilled out yet kenny??? rofl

Killer whales are stronger, bigger and faster than great white sharks. So the killer whale wins. Moreover it's the only predator of the great white shark.

Frankie and Billy Bob Thornton! FUCK BOTH OF YOU!!!! 
 
 
 
Do you seriously think I would drive miles to your house just to fight Frankie? wtfe 
 
 
 
And Billy Bob Joe Blows Cock, you're a fucking kid I know it! 
 
 
 
"my favorite animals r the cougar and the scorpion. theres a mythical creature called the manticore which is part lion and scorpion and is the only mythical creature that has both cat and scorpion parts. id prolly call my style manticore fist or manticore ninpou one of the two not sure yet..be a wile to i create it as a fully functional style.but it will have speed influences of ninjutsus (like a cat) and dangerous mid to long rage strikes(karate and kick boxing) it will b something i truly want to do." 
 
 
 
lololololol.....You're fucking childish!

come on guys! quit fighting on the internet, THAT's childish! 
 
 
 
kenny you need to learn how to control that bad temper of yours! 
 
 
 
frankie, the same goes for you, don't take his comments too personally, he's just having a bad day. 
 
 
 
billybobjo, some of your comments are insulting in some ways too, lay off of people who lose their tempers or theyre just gonna blow up on you. 
 
 
 
Killer whale for the win.

I love the GW shark. Definitely one of my most favorite animals. I like them a whole lot more then the Orca. However no matter how awesome the shark is or it's awesome more advanced scenes then then that of a Orca, unless it is a small Orca, the shark is completely beat probably any time unless of coarse it is a solitary Orca smaller or possibly the same size as the GW shark.  
Even though GW have been known to wok together in hunts, or pulling beached whales into deeper water to feed on, and even working together to kill whales, there isn't enough evidence to prove this is a common occurrence as it has only be documented a few times.  
 
Although almost every time these animals meet up they almost always turn the other direction. Neither animal can afford to get injured.  
Even if the Orca is way bigger the GW can still deliver a huge bite that can severely injure the Orca, results in inability to surface, hunt or protect itself well. Even though it has the support of the clan, the bite may be to severe to heal enough to allow the Orca full mobility again, and thus may result in a slow death. The shark maybe able to deliver a bite that may eventually kill the Orca, but the Orca if it is large enough could deliver a bite that would kill the GW allot quicker. So like I said neither wants to end up in a fight because neither can afford to get injured, this is usually the case when any apex predator meets up with each other, they just turn the other way. So even if both were to meet the most likely scenario would be both turning around avoiding each other and no fight will occur.

the shark was only 15ft in the video and the orca was near 30ft

Actually, in some cases, Orcas have been known to be cannabalistic. It has been confirmed that instances of beached Orcas with bites taken out of them have actually been from other Orcas (however rare). In one case off of the coast of Alaska, a team of 3 Great Whites actually teamed on a sole Killer Whale as they saw him as a threat to their food supply. The White sharks were systematically attacking the Orca but when he finally had enough, got hold of one of the sharks and threw him arounf 40 feet out of the water. The rest of the sharks went home. True story

Craig  
 
Pretty cool story. Thee is discussion in the scientific world on weather Great whites work together or not during hunts, there just isn't enough evidence to support this.

Ah yea. Orcas take the gold. They are known to hunt and kill great whites. GW are still bad*ss though.

The biggest white sharks are 7 m long and their weight is around 2.6 tons. The movie is very missleading and tedious as a 8 m long adult orca really can kill a 3-4 m young white shark. However, mature and experinced white sharks are less vulnerable (they survive more severe woundings) and can dive much deeper at a higher speed as they do not need athmospheric air. So, I vote for great whites

Well believe me I love sharks, I have swam with them so many times without a cage even the great white.  
However as spectacular the GW is and how extraordinary it's senses are, and that it is the the best definition for a flawless predator, you can't ignore the Orca.  
Orcas can weigh 11 tons and over 30ft in length. They also travel in pods and it is quite rare to find a lone Orca and they look out for each other to. They have been seen in pods as big as 60 members. Even the largest of GWs wouldn't fare to well against a single Orca let alone maybe dozens backing it up. Killer whales have been known to prey on animals such as elephant seals which can weigh 4 times more then a GW, and even blue whale and sperm whale calves which are heavier then the largest of GW when born. The Orca also has allot more Stamina. This is why when a pod of Orca's attacks something it can last for hours, while the GW rely's on an explosive burst of speed and a powerful bite, and not being spotted by the prey.  
 
I do have to say that one on one the Shark in the end will most likely still be the first to fall, but if the Shark does it right, and gets a good bite on the Orca the Orca will slowly die of blood loss. The Shark wouldn't hunt the whale, so no hunting techniques would happen, but a good bite would later finish off the Orca.  
 
Many people also say that the Orca or any whale is allot more intelligent and that will give it an advantage as well, however studies have been done and they are actually very intelligent, and there brain to body mass ratio is similar to that of mammals.  
 
I still say the Orca, but in the wild the vast majority of the time when they run into each other they turn the other way, as neither can afford to get injured and they know that.

First, sorry for my English I am Hungarian therefore my writings are more like Hunglish.... 
There are many similar debates today where the inteligence of a given species is questioned and evalutated by grabbing some anthropocentric parameters out of the whole system (like Homo sapiens vs Homo neanderthalensis, gorilla vs chimpanzee, etc.) Earlier it was thought to be evident that H. sapiens outsmarted H. neanderthalensis. Today we know the later was as smart in tool making, in social behavior, in speaking and hunting ability as the ancient form of Homo sapiens. Reason of its extinction had different reason/s (for example a new kind of disease can be blamed, which was spread by the 'newcomer' H. sapiens). Earlier it was thought to be evident that the chimpanzee is closer to us than gorillas, because of surfacely more visible similarities (tool making, hunting, social behavior). Then it turned out that gorillas are much smarter in learning communication by using symbols, and the appearance of real fatherhood in gorilla groups is probably also more important development then hunting for termits with wooden sticks by chimpanzee. The taxonomic difference between KW and GW is much bigger, however there are many new results coming up that GWs are inteligent animals. Seals, being nearly as smart as dolphins, are continuously developing new and new strategies to keep off GWs, but there is evidence that GWs are able to adapt to these new strategies. Do not forget that there will be always one big advantage of GWs, they can any time easily escape from KWs if they want (in the case of comparable size). Because of their higher speed, and their ability for deeper and long diving. The opposite is not true. Until a KW is in the water the escape is not possible. Only the cover of a KW pod can mean safety.

Just one more thing about anthropocentric views; the video showed that the battle between the KW and GW was on the surface, where the KW could use its whole arsenal of advantages (the bigger mass alone has no meaning in deeper water). Of course, because easier to capture such moments on the surface. Who knows how many times this story was repeated in deep water with different results?

Actually, the largest Great White ever caught weighed 7,500 lbs off the coast of Cuba-I beleive they also released it.

ATTILA  
 
The Largest GW ever recorded is a insignificant number. It is a single shark weighing that much not the entire species. Measurements and weights are based on a average, not a single animal.  
 
Besides that 7,500 lbs is still half the size of the average male Orca.

Actually, Otto, Killer Whales can swim much faster than Great White Sharks. Great Whites' top speed is 15mph. Killer Whales, known to be the fastest marine mammal, can swim over 30mph. That's twice as fast as Great Whites, incase you can't do math.

Actually, Great Whites can swim 20-25 mph in studies revealed about their breaching-and Mako sharks are faster than orcas or any other marine life swimming @ 40 mph-they are in the same family of shark as the Great White.

Attila, even the mass itself is not much important when a 5 m long average GW and a 7 m long average KW fight with each other in the deeper water. It is important only when the fight happens on the surface and KWs can use their excess mass by jumping from behind. Below the surface there are no such maneuvers. Really should I explain this?

Non of us has direct evidence about the top speed of a GW so, we know what we read. Most of my readings confirm a top speed between 15-25 mph for GWs, however I red a quite convincing article from a jet ski driver, who was moving on with over 40 mph and a big GW followed him effortlessly for long time.

Furthermore, I guess that significant part of the excess mass of a KW is just a dead weight; a thick fat layer by which warm blooded cetaceans and sea mammals protect themselves against the cold water. Sharks do not need this despite GWs are not totaly cold blooded.

I love orcas. I have been adopting one named Solstice, a male orca, lives near San Juan Island BC.  
 
 
 
Not sure to use the term "hate" but I would simply say I don't like Sharks at all, I mean any kind of them, especially the GW. 
 
Yes, they are magnificant animals for sure, but please keep them away from me :)))  
 
 
 
GW vs KW, a fair fight or not, I don't care much LOL and I have no problem if Orcas like to eat Shark liver which is perfectly fine with me :)))

the killer whale is the most powerful anima in the animal king dom

um, no they aren't. Humans are...

I agree. Humans are killed 90% of GWs during the last decades and everybody remember to just few cases when it happened oppositly.

Orca wins hands down in all aspects including intelligence! actually everybody saying it was an unfair fight but the orca which killed and ate the great white (CA2)was actually very similar in size to the shark only a few ft bigger prob 2/3ft bigger at max. it was not 10-15ft larger like suggested as the pod which it is from is known to grow to smaller sizes than other pods worldwide. The orca rammed the shark flipped it renedering it helpless and ate it. The documentary showing it called 'The whale that ate the shark' on channel five in the UK was detailed and interesting and they showed this didnt only happen once but TWICE, the latter took place in 2000. They noted that when the events took place ALL the sharks ALL of them swam across the ocean and some of them 2000 miles away to hawaii. Normally the area would be full of sharks at that time of year due to the seals and sea lion presence but when the GW got eaten the sharks got scared and retreated. When it happened again in 2000 they tagged(prior to the event) and recored the movement of a 5-6m adult shark. that shark swam off the continental shelf, dived 500m then swam to halway across the pacific hawaiian waters all in the name of avoiding orcas. So GW are not the apex predator because if in a fight with an orca of the same size it would have no chance. Even the sharks that were larger than the orca vacated the area so doesn't that say something.

Actually, all the experts say that they are in fact the apex predators of the oceans, even though rarely-very rarely they have come up against orcas and lost. 
 
Also should be noted that the ancestor of the great white-Megalodon was the top predator the world has ever seen-it had no match in the oceans of the world.

Xola, you are the first including shark experts and biologists telling that GWs are not apex predators. I just red that GWs in groups knowingly hunts for young humback whales by slowing them down biting basal part of their tails (even the smaller tiger sharks can do it in groups). KW carcasses were found with the signs of GW jaws. If not GWs killed them why only GW signs were found on them? Any see scavanger can feed on a dead KW! Furthermore, knowing how extraordinary senses the GWs posses, how a healthy one can be chased by a KW? Only if those GWs are sick or weak specimens. Because this is the basic law of a pradator - prey interaction. Always the weak and sick selected.

Also you are the first suggesting that sharks are able to communicate so effectively that all of them escaped far away within a short time period, the most weak-hearted ones up to Hawaii. KWs have no such sophisticated communication system ...

Oh my stupid English! It is a bit(e) better: "Even KWs have no such sophisticated communication system"

i did back off the point still stands that kenny talks the talk but dosent walk the walk lol 
 
and he still sits there stewing up about it and makes rash based genralizations once a week i just dont get it so much for tough arse kenny lol @ the drop kick 
 

heres the skinny lads and lasses, orca's are intelligent and have created there own culture and know how to render a great white unconscious by simply turning it over, then drowning it, they do the same to stingrays, being inverted rules !

Just read this if you want to know more about the nature of media creating sensations: 
 
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/Sharks/InNews/deangrubbs.htm 
 
The eye victim guy - who got fed up with the media circus - is telling there that two adult female KWs were attacking a small juvenile GW, becasue it swam too close to their prey (so no KW calve was close). KWs were not feeding on the carcas of small GW at all. 

Tiger sharks attack a young (but not calve) humpback whale: 
 
http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/news/features/1106_sharkattack.html

 
GWs bite the basal part of the tails of pilot whales to slow them down during hunting (this is how hunt for bigger "fish-shaped" games): 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH-cpo9webY&feature=related 

Otto type in on the internet Nature shock-the whale that ate the great white shark, watch it and they are trained and qualified scientists ok. It will beat me trying to do all the explaining to you. The only KW carcasses that were probably at that location were those of juvenile KW. Sharks have a thing where when one shark is killed/dead the scent of this dead shark triggers a fleeing mechanism in the sharks in close proximity. so when the orca killed the great white in 1997 and 2000 at those two times the sharks fled the scene so now you have learned something new and all of those scientists learned that too. How do you think we as a human race get smarter we don't just stick to one theory and keep to it we learn new things and the shark scientists have too. Why have you brought Humpback whales and Pilot whales into this debate that is very pointless. I won't even bother to respond on them. plus i saw you comment earlier on the orcas having a lot of blubber and dead weight- but yet they can still reach faster speeds that your beloved great whites.

Xola, bringing whales into the debate is not pointless at all. GWs and tiger sharks are able to kill as large preys as KWs when they form temporary or rather opportunist groups ("task forces"). But it happens rarely and accidentally, and I admire that between 0 and 150 m below the sea surface KW pods are on the top of the food chain. I am not as narrow minded as it looks from my comments, but whenever I looked behind the curtain in these single handed KW wining stories it turned out that the real story was different. KWs are loved by most of the people, because of their inteligence, social behavior and brutal beauty, while sharks are still blunt eating automats, just living fossils. While people do not kill knowingly KWs, they hunt for sharks on industrial level. I red an estimation that 99% of sharks dissappeared from the Mexican gulf during the last decades. I just wanted to show that the reality is not just a single equation, the prey - predator relationship is a complex thing and sharks are very well programmed automats (several hundred years evolution). Finally just one more thing. GWs kill and eat smaller shark species and even small GW specimens, and intraspecific conflicts are occuring also to establish hierarchy. Thus sensing GW blood by other GWs is not KW-specific through smelling. It is thought that GWs and sharks in general are able to sense the sounds of dolphins through its specific resonance wavelength and it can be that they are able to distinguish between taxon groups. They hunts for the 'prey group' and they escape when necessary.

correctly: 'several hundred million years of evolution'

The only carcuss there was the dead G/W that the orca had killed, and tigers live in the med G/Ws live in the atlantic, they need cold water tigers prefer tropicall waters, so the 2 should never meet, tigers are way smaller than G/Ws anywho 23ft to 12ft you do the math !

that wasent even a fully grown shark, it wa like 9ft against a giant killer whale.

Neither was it a normal size orca this are basically 'pigmy' orcas if I must say. They don't grow to te size of normal orcas this was a 12-13ft orca.

It looks that everbody interpret things according to their own personal taste and symphaty. For exmple if you read the same story in this site - http://www.extremescience.com/orcavshark.htm - the bigger orca was 20 ft, the smaller one was about 10 ft and the Carcharodon-like shark was 9-10 ft. (Because of the small size of the shark some people speculate that it was not GW, but a short fin mako.)

it was cool but i already knew killer whale would win because killer whales are heavier and weigh as many as 1300 pounds 
 
 
 
it was not really a fight  
 
 
 
if three sharks vs. killer whale then it would be a fight 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
p.s. really not cool please reply on me

I told you otto go and watch the show its more insightful than that site because of the actual real life accounts of the people who were at the scene. Nature shock-the whale that ate the shark

The fact that small and sick sharks are killed by orcas and small and sick orcas are killed by sharks prooves nothing (even hienas can kill sick and old lions). You compare the library size orca knowledge with the very few things what we know about GWs. This provides no basis to accept that fully grown GWs are part of KW dominated food chains. As asian lions are not part of the diet of tigers.

unfair fight in video, the orca is much bigger,while it is true orcas hunt much larger whales everyone seems to forget they do so in large numbers and wouldnt dare if they were alone. if they were both equal size and one on one i think it would be a pretty even fight that could go either way, if the white caught him by surprise though then it would be all over for the killer whale

i have studied killer whales my whole life. First, if you look at the prey for each species, an orca has been known to eat all of the following; blue, sperm, humpback, and a lot of other whales, dolphins, walruses, sea lions, seals, penguins, fish, squid, shark................ the list goes on and on. The Shark will eat dolphins, but usually avoids them due to strength in number of the time. most of the time they will attack a baby dolphin. While the shark is a ferocious predator, the orca can do one thing that would make it better for the fight. The orca has the ability to be upside down while the shark can not for too long. this allows for greater versatility and that with size and speed wins all the time

According to scientific evidences (http://marinebio.or/species.asp?id=84) an adult orca must consume that amount of food that is equal to 3-4% of its total body weight daily (calves eat 10% of their body weight daily!). If you multiply it with the number of orcas within an average pod, it is easy to imagine that they need to hunt for the biggest games. It is very likely that this is the reason why they form groups. Great whites are much more economic, they consume a magnitude less. They feed on relatively small, easy-to-catch preys to minimize any risks. This is also the reason why they have so streamlined body; not for high speed, but for energy sawing swiming. I think this is the key of their evolutionary success. If the overfishing of the seas will be continued like today, orcas will be more and more endangered, while GW still will be able to adopt the new situations. 

i love how people allways say what iff it was the same size arnt we taking rell live animals and puting them in fights not changing there size just becuz people who are great white fans like to see it win killer whale will win every time the great white has two week spots there nose and gills dolfins evan kill great whites by takaling there gills

The Orca looks like a faggot.

This is ridiculous. Not going by feet or weight, the shark would lose because the killer whale is a thinking, calculated hunter where as the shark is a strong killer that is limited in its calculated hunting ability. Sharks have a natural fear of anything that is bigger than it is and can cause it harm...out the gate, an orca that is larger is certain to dine on shark liver that night. Unless you know aquatic animals, please refrain from commenting

Actually Otto, the Hyena kills healthy lions who don't abandon their kills when clashes between clan and pride occur. On that note, hyena's have twice the sixe heart of a lion making it 10% of its bodyweight and it also is more hunter than scavenger obtaining 80% of its diet from its own hunting while the lions is merely 50% making them more the scavenger. 
 
You are correct on the Great White, however, they do prey actively on dolphins specifically in the waters of the Mediterrenean-indeed they are healthy ones at that. 
 
Also to be noted, the greatest predator in this world was Carcharadon Megalodon who preyed on everything, including intelligent whales. Evidence suggesting this has been proven by perfect matching Meg teeth on whale spines indicating that when they bit down, they nearly severed the whale all the way to the spine. Right now, orcas have the advantage, but it hasn't always been this way. When Meg swam the oceans-he ruled them.

Killer whales are much stronger than sharks.They are torpredator of the ocean. They can even successfully kill a blue whale. They can easily over power a shark of any size.

i seriously am terrified of sharks but to tell you the truth i defiantly favor them over orcas i don't no why i think its just the way they look and because there fierce i reckon that if the great white was smarter and just a tad bigger than it would kick the orcas ass!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/6668575/Killer-whales-attack-and-eat-sharks.html

i loveee sharks but i never knew they could get took down by a whale thats the same size as them.

i would have sex with an orca over a shark.....sharks just dont do it for me in the sack

okay some whale wachers not to long ago spoted two killer whales a mother and her baby a great white shark came out of no were and head for them. everyone on the bote were like hes gona kill them. then the mother killer whale no biger then this good sized shart darts at the shart and the people on the boat said they both went under water 20 feet away from ethother. they sat motionlis waiting for the shark to come up with the whale. then the killer whale cam out of no were beside the boat with the dead shark in its moth and it was showing it off 
 

Watch the National Geographic program "The Whale That Ate Jaws." It explains the entire attack in the Farrellones. A pair of orcas from a pod known as the L.A. pod had just killed and fed upon a sealion. The shark was attracted to the scent of the kill and was investigating. The larger of the orcas intercepted the shark and rammed it. While the shark was stunned, the whale turned it over on its back and held it in its jaws. The shark was rendered harmless because they become calm and motionless on their backs. The shark eventually suffocated because no water was flowing over its gills. Researchers have recently discovered that some pods of orcas actively prey upon great whites as part of their regular diet and that it is quite possible these particular orcas have figured out the technique for safely rendering the sharks harmless before eating them. Such behaviors are known to be passed from one generation of orcas to another. In an interesting sidenote, shark researchers in the Farrellones found that the entire population of great whites surrounding the islands fled the area immediately after the attack and did not reurn for some time. This was also not the only attack in the Farrellones. There was a second attack recorded three years later in 2000. The fact of the matter is, orcas are much bigger and more powerful than a great white shark. Moreover, the orca has the intelligence and cunning to figure out the best approach to killing even its most dangerous adversary.

Its a friggin no brainer. Orcas hunt sharks all the time. They even hunt whales. They jump many meters above water and catch seals that are on high ground on land. Orcas are beautiufl and loving creatures that are almost as smart as humans.

KWs hunt for sharks, whales, dolphins, seals and for many kind of fishes. Similarly, GWs hunt for sharks, whales, dolphins, seals and for many kind of fishes. Mature KWs can kill small and sick GWs, mature GWs can kill small and sick KWs, as I wrote many times. But mature KWs do not kill mature GWs, because it is against one of the most important general law of predation; just live alone such prey which have a realistic potential for effective resistance. KWs are not bigger and faster enough to kill fully grown GWs. Simply because of two things: the bigger size of KWs is mostly the result of thick fat layers by which sea mammals protect themselves against the cold water (that is, dead weight), second, GWs can rapidly dive down to over 1200 m (the largest depths were GWs were found was 3300 m!), while KWs were never found below 150-200 m.

What Otto said is true. They wouldn't fight against each other because they have no territories so it is useless. A fight between the two would be no good, unless maybe the KW has a small cut thats bleeding or something like that.

I also think that there is a big difference in weight and flexibility between the bony skeleton of KWs and cartilageous ones of GWs. The latter is much more efficient for underwater life.

a great white would win because it is trained from birth to be the primary predator, and to be able to kill any animal. The killer whale is a dolphin technically, and is very smart, more so than the shark, and would use quick wits to get a good route on the shark for attack. the shark however, being a fish with a homing device like the killer whale, would use that to see where the whale is coming from, and it would use its amazing bite force to severely damage the whale, and then it would keep biting and leaving, biting and leaving, until the killer whale is too damaged to continue---case closed

Hellooo! Any body in there? Did you not see the video? Orcas turn great white into the Greatful Dead.This a no contest!

If you have questions like this, please go through on this debate. I am sure that you will learn many things, which are totaly new for you.

@Otto 
 
"But mature KWs do not kill mature GWs, because it is against one of the most important general law of predation; just live alone such prey which have a realistic potential for effective resistance." 
 
Except that the Orca is intelligent enough to learn how to effectively hunt GWs without risking damage to itself.

@Jesse "Lulz" James 
 
"What Otto said is true. They wouldn't fight against each other because they have no territories so it is useless." 
 
You obviously didn't see the video then. There territories sometimes overlap and look what happened. GW became sushi meal to the Orca.

@BigNige  
 
"a great white would win because it is trained from birth to be the primary predator, and to be able to kill any animal." 
 
 
 
Really? So who trains the young GW pup after birth? Did you know that right after birth a great white pup swims away from the mother immediately and there is no maternal care-giving? 
 
Orcas on the other hand live in pods (family), and there have been many documented instances where adult orcas trained their young how to hunt and kill seals.

@BigNige  
 
"the shark however, being a fish with a homing device like the killer whale, would use that to see where the whale is coming from" 
 
, and it would use its amazing bite force to severely damage the whale, and then it would keep biting and leaving, biting and leaving, until the killer whale is too damaged to continue---case closed  
 
 
 
So where was this so called "homing device" when the KW made a meal out of the GW in the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS6NjdGLVZs&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_fresh+div-HM 
 
 
 
GW = sushi. Case closed. 
 
 
 

@Otto 
 
"KWs are not bigger and faster enough to kill fully grown GWs. Simply because of two things: the bigger size of KWs is mostly the result of thick fat layers by which sea mammals protect themselves against the cold water (that is, dead weight), second, GWs can rapidly dive down to over 1200 m (the largest depths were GWs were found was 3300 m!), while KWs were never found below 150-200 m. " 
 
 
 
KWs are fat because of the "All you can eat GW sushi". 
 
So why would a GW need to dive down that deep? Because it's running away from the KW? To avoid becoming buffet sushi?

GWs inhabit the seas as real sea animals while KWs are just scratching the surface my friend. KWs must live in pods becuse without help they even can not bear their calves.

So marine mammals are not real sea animals? Nice logic there my friend. And what has bearing calves have anything to do with the topic (GW vs KW)? The fact is KW's are much smarter, warm-bloodied (which means they have much greater stamina), faster (30mph vs GW 25mph) and bigger. Therefore GW is sushi.

Otto, you're just another GW fanboy who only uses claims and can't back it up with facts.

Judge, is that video a 'fact' for you? Yes means you are a KW fanboy who finally found a proof for what? Two KWs a 20 ft long and a 10 ft long one killed a young 9-10 ft GW. Each eye witness interpreted this story quite differently. If you read through this topic you will see that I always cited facts. It is a pitty that GWs are much less known than KWs. My experince is that KW fanboys like you want to stress through these single handed KW dominance over GWs stuff using that fake video

Just one more thing Judge. Over hundreds of years in shipping history, sailors, fishermens, travellers have never seen or reported a single KW/GW contest. Do you think that it is correct to generalize from a single and very quetionable fight? Who is a fanboy my friend?

Orca, the killer whale is the ocean's top predator. That is, unless you consider the sperm whale. Many people do not know that, before the whaling industry during the 19th century and early 20th century, bull sperm whales grew up to 80 feet long. This is proven from the whale jaws collected by the whalers for trophies. They killed the biggest bulls, leaving the smaller whales to breed more small whales.  
 
But, as for Orca vs Great White shark, my money is on the Orca.

Actually, the ultimate predator on earth was Megalodon, ancestor to the Great White. The Great White has also been tested with a bite force of 4000 lbs according to animal planet, not the severely underestimated under 1,000 lbs previously cited, but albeit they were wrong, new updated information has been put out there-such as; they do not mistake surfers/surface swimmers for seals-Great Whites have excellent eyesight-and yellow is targeted as a color to be attacked by them and is referred to as "yum yum yellow". 
 
Orcas have been seen killing a sperm whale by tourists filming the pod of sperm whales from the northwestern pacific by Washington. This is a horrible comparison, a Great White is a loner while an orca doesn't and couldn't live alone making it a pod of orcas against 1 shark.

Was. Megalodon *was the top predator. Today ( excluding cowardly humans ) the Orca is at the top of the food chain. Yes, they are intellegent and hunt in packs. Even so, one on one, an Orca can destroy any shark. 
 

Who knows-who's to say whats down there? All I know is that they(Meg) was supposedly extinct millions of years ago-then came findings of "fresh" teeth only 11,000 years old.  
 
Other than that, orcas will win, because ultimately they all hunt together as wolves of the sea and it will never be one on one.

I doubt that even a 60 foot Megalodon would challenge an 80 foot sperm whale. Moby Dick is ( in my opinion ) the top sea predator of all time. But, in a pack, like a pack of sea wolves, the Orca rules.

Scientists do not know how big they grew, only that they ranged possibly between 60-90 ft long and were the ultimate predator on the planet. They regularly fed on whales, in fact, the reason they know this to be fact is, in Montana and other states, they found in most whale spines gouges made from Megolodon's teeth: meaning they bit so hard, they gouged the spine with their teeth, so they did in fact prey upon whales as prey, a sperm whale would be no problem for the greatest predator the world has ever known.

Most scientists today agree that Megalodon grew to be somewhere between 50 and 60 feet long. However, in a face-off, a Meg could probably take down an 80 foot sperm whale. 
 
But in all actuality, it is doubtful that a Meg would attack a bull sperm whale. If the Meg is anything like a great white, it did not attack anything bigger than itself. But, I believe that you are right. In a face-off, the Meg would likely win.

Ok, let's try to some rational and logical thought here for a change. 
 
First, let's understand what the exercise is all about; it's pitting two top predators of the sea in a one-on-one battle. 
 
It's NOT about the KW and his/her pod vs. a GW. 
 
It's ONE-ON-ONE! 
 
 
 
Yes, we ALL know the KW travels in a pod, but for this one fight, he's alone.  
 
Now, let's take a realistic look at the two combatants; 
 
The KW has the edge in size, strength, speed, intelligence and weopens. The Orca can and has used his sonar as a tool to confuse prey. 
 
The GW has, well......actually the GW doesn't have much more than a puncher's chance against the KW. The shark, contrary to what some here have posted, is very limited in intelligence, compared to the KW. The GW has been described, and rightfully so, as a stomach with teeth attached to it. But it's smart enough to stay clear of a bigger predator. 
 
The fact is, when the KW enters an area, all other large predators leave.  
 
The average Orca beats the average Great White shark. 
 
There is no debate on this. 
 

I agree 100%. 
 
When one animal has so many advantages, he is going to win every time. An Orca can take down a Great White shark every time.

Let's clear some more falsehoods that have been floating around here; 
 
 
 
KW's do indeed, at times, hunt a large variety of sharks, including GWs. 
 
GW's do NOT hunt KWs, and in fact have been known to leave the area when KWs pass through. 
 
 
 
GW's do NOT hunt full grown, mature whales, especially Blue, Sperm or Hunchback. As solo hunters, they stay clear. They may attack a very young or sick Whale, but not while the Mother or other members of the pod is around. 
 
KW's will not hunt full grown mature Blues, Sperm or Hunchback either, but they will attack the young, and try to seperate it from it's mother, or the occasional lone, smaller, old or sick adult Whale. 
 
 
 
GW's do NOT, or very, VERY rarely show ANY co-operation in hunting. They do however, take part frequently in what is commonly called "feeding frenzy", where a group of sharks will attack and feed off a injured/dead prey. 
 
 
 
KW's do indeed have a VERY complex form of communication, using clicks and whistles. They ARE part of the Dolphin family, after all. 
 
 
 
The top recorded speed of the KW is faster than that of the GW. 
 
 
 
The KW does not recognize a "territory" of other animals; it is the top predator in the sea. Most sharks are migratory anyway, so they have no territory.  
 
 
 
Otto, I don't even know how to respond to your claim of "dead weight" on the KW. That's just silly. 
 
 
 
And to the poster who keeps bringing up, Megalodon; ok. We get it. He was THE badass of the sea. 
 
But he's not around anymore, so maybe he wasn't THAT bad, huh? 
 
I'm just sayin'.

I brought up Meg because someone brought up the sperm whale being top ocean predator. The baddest ever was Meg, and he was that tough and only global conditions forced them out-they couldn't adapt-and nobody said they absolutely ARE extinct-they probably are, but they've found teeth only 11,000 years old when they were supposedly extinct for millions of years-they still are finding species long thought extinct and discovering they are in fact not. Yeah, they were THAT bad. You are however correct in your points about the orca.

Yea... that makes me want to puke. It sucks, but I stand by my argument. Killer whales are VERY wasteful animals. For a whale (oversized dolphin) to do that and get most more respect than the shark, that sucks too. Although there are a few videos circulating about this type of thing, people tend to think orcas are kings of the sea. I would still have to say the great whites are the kings. They have been around far much longer before the orca's inception and the inception of all cetations in general. There are far more species of elasmobranchs than cetations and the fact of the matter is that SHARKS RULE THE SEA! I hate to see people look at the killer whale as some sort of superhero because of the occasional fatality on a shark. I'm sure given the right conditions a shark (particularly a white shark) could have it's way in a fight or confrontation with an orca. Just because it has not been documented doesn't mean it can't happen or has never happened. Damn... I hate orcas!

30 foot Orca kills 20 foot Great White shark. Everytime. Yes, the Great White shark has been in the ocean longer than the Orca. The cockroach has been around even longer, but he is not the King of Beasts.

otto you tool, great whites can be renderd unconcsious by being turned over ! killer whales know this fact, it's widely exepted that more is known about great whites than killer whales, suck my plankton x

Let it go otto ! you ain't winning this 1 Duuuuuuuuuu ddddd eeee x

I think were all missing the bigger picture here ? the biggest killer in the sea today is fresh water, it's actually turning all our sea's acidic, were all doomed DOOMED I tell ya !!

Nameless, your style is quite self-explanatory so, I do not have to waste a word for that. But could you please just explain one thing: how KWs can hold and turn over GWs making them unconcsious technically?

"30 foot Orca kills 20 foot Great White shark. Everytime." 
 
Toby, it is a typical KW fanboy thing again. Where is the proof?  
 
"The cockroach has been around even longer, but he is not the King of Beasts." 
 
So, in your simile the lion - as the King of Beast- represents KWs and the cockroach represents GWs. If I am reading it correctly you are also just a one-sided KW fanboy.

ok, the KW tracked the GW for a while and when it saw it's oppotunity, then bang it ramed it and flipped the GW over and then just held it there till it drowned, objects are weightless in the water, so next time your being eaten by a GW just flip it over ok x

Jcol, somebody really should clear some falsehoods that have been floating around here as you wrote. The first thing of this clarification could be that you would kindly provide any proof of your statement: "KW's do indeed, at times, hunt a large variety of sharks, including GWs". Because I think a more correct form of this sentence would be something like: KW's do indeed, at times, hunt a large variety of sharks, excluding mature GWs.

actually Otto, it's not too difficult to look this stuff up. You should try it. If you go to the GW page of wikipedia, you'll find that KW's do indeed prey on GW. (it doesn't read immature GW, it just says GW). 
 
Perhaps the most telling fact, and this is undisputed, is that when KW's enter an area, GW's leave, just as fast as they can. The reason for this is obvious; the GW recognizes a larger and superior predator. BTW, given the size disparity in the size of the two predators, it's easy to mistake an average sized GW as a sub-adult, when placed beside an average sized KW. It's a difference of up to 6ft and 2500lbs on average. 
 
Sorry Otto, but KW's do prey on GWs, even adults. But it's rare, because the GWs usually skedaddle when the detect a KW in the neighborhood.

Ah, a orca can easily beat a great white. I wonto see this fight and it may go either way: 
 
Saltwater crocodile vs great white shark.

I agree with animalia here. The Orca is the top predator at sea. As for saltwater crocodile vs great white shark, I believe it would depend on where this fight takes place. In the open ocean, I will say shark. In a river ( less than 30 feet deep ) I will say crocodile.  
 
~Just my opinion.

Guys, I admire every logic explanation and everyones personal opinion, if the interpretation is not offensive. Despite that I am really a fanatic GW fanboy. We are arguing heavily, because there are still no clear evidences. I accept that an adult male KW has more chance to win - in theory - against an adult female GW (females are bigger in GWs) in a one-to-one contest. Of course KW pods can win even easier. However, as KWs can inhabit seas only to 100-150 meter depths, for me it is still strange to say they are the top predators of the seas. GWs often dive below 1200 meter (the greatest depths where GWs were observed was 3000-3300 meter!) Only 5% of the habitats of KWs and GWs overlaps!

Otto, I understand what you mean, but I think what they mean by "top predator", is when the two species do interact, when they are in the same area. The KW clearly becomes the top predator in the area, at that time.

OK Jcol, it looks now that we have a basis to discuss jointly. I understood your point, but I also think that we have to put this contest into the real world. In theory, KW pods possess every tools to hunt for GWs. Let's see what they need for that? They need a method to prevent being recognized by GWs. It does not seem to be easy knowing the extraordinary senses of GWs. Most probably young, inexperienced or old, sick GW specimens could be chased successfully. Then they need tactics to prevent the excape of GWs (to prevent its rapid diving). My opinion is that the success of KW pods against even a solitary GW depend exlusively on the "surprise effect". At the same time, I also think that KWs will able to develop such tactics when no easier pray will be available. The question is - again - how we should see these fights, only virtually or in a real world?

Well Otto, for the sake of this exercise, it is a virtual type undertaking. In the real world, in the recorded incidents between the two predators, the GW did not fare well. This does not take into account size, weight, age etc, just the outcome. 
 
 
 
I'm not sure how the two would come about running into each other. Again, GW's vacate the area, as do all other predators when KW's are around. 
 
 
 
GW have an electomagnetic sensor that can detect movement from miles away. This is part of thier hunting technique. 
 
 
 
So again, the exercise is simply a "what if" scenario. Purely for fun and conjecture. 
 
I admire both predators.

I can't believe it how could that happen!!!!!!!!!

@Otto 
 
Otto, did the video happen? Yes. So that is a fact. All you have is pure speculation.

@Otto 
 
Otto, here's more facts for you. 
 
 
 
"After the Farallon island incident where an Orca killed a Great White, the Great Whites in that area disappeared.  
 
The Farallones has one of the world’s largest congregations of great white sharks, with as many as 15 materializing out of the murky waters, due to it’s abundance of seals and sea lions. Yet they all disappeared after the attack." 
 
 
 
In addition... 
 
 
 
"There was a 15-foot male Great White shark (named Tipfin) that was tagged (satellite tag) by researchers a month before the attack. When the tag popped off six months later and transmitted its stored data, the researchers had an almost minute-by-minute account of Tipfin’s movements.  
 
On the hour of the attack, Tipfin (the Great White) abruptly dropped to 500 meters and headed west. It swam all the way to Hawaii." 
 
 
 
Now let's see your facts Otto. Let the GW fanboism go.

Otto, give it up with the "what ifs".

@Otto 
 
This just shows you the KW's superior intelligence and how they are able to adapt and learn mechanisms to handle dangerous preys. Granted, the prey is a Mako and not the GW, it does mention in the report... 
 
"The notorious Great White and Mako are just two of at least nine species of shark known to be on the menu for some orca families."

Here's the link to the above... 
 
 
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1231454/Killer-whales-Death-karate-chop-deadly-tactic-used-orcas-sharks.html 
 

To whomever said "Orcas prey on Makos" is a complete dipshit! Do you not know anything about sharks because you are so obsessed with KW? Quit picking on otto! A great white COULD kill an orca! I want to say it has probably happened, but maybe nobody has seen it. I admire sharks orcas, and dolphnins, but all you people so enamoured with orcas need to consider giving the great white more credit. Furthermore, Makos are the fastest shark in the ocean and Orcas DO NOT prey on Makos. So to all you orca lovers, go eat Orca's excrement! 
 
 
 
-Marc (Marc's Shark Site) 
 
}-^-,>

Otto, I totally get what you mean. 
It is a fact that Killer Whales don't venture into the depths of the sea while Great White Sharks dive down to a couple thousand meters. 
It is true that you can only say what would happen in the area that ranges from the surface to almost 200m, which is the only location in which both Killer Whales and Great White Sharks inhabit. 
But I think most of the people here are talking about that particular space. Besides, there wouldn't be a Killer Whale to hold a fight against a Great White at those depths, so it's virtually impossible to test.

@Marc, 
 
 
 
You are the dipshit GW fanboy who refuses to face facts by ignoring the above link. Here's the link again. Unless of course, you have a reading comprehension problem. 
 
 
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1231454/Killer-whales-Death-karate-chop-deadly-tactic-used-orcas-sharks.html 
 
 
 

@Marc 
 
 
 
BTW, when people disagree and argue, it's NOT "picking" on someone. And grown ups usually backup their arguments with facts and concrete evidence. All you have is assumptions. Not to mention the non-sense childish name calling rubbish.

@Marc 
 
 
 
>>Do you not know anything about sharks because you are so obsessed with KW?  
 
We know a lot about GWs and KWs. That's how we come to the conclusion that KW>GW. Unlike you, we do not base our conclusions on pure speculations. 
 
 
 
>>A great white COULD kill an orca! 
 
The "Could've Should've Would've" argument holds nothing. Bring on the evidence and educate us. 
 
 
 
>>I admire sharks orcas, and dolphnins, but all you people so enamoured with orcas need to consider giving the great white more credit. 
 
We do give the GW credit. But when you put it against the KW, it's just no contest. KWs are smarter, warm-blooded (much greater stamina than cold-blooded creatures), faster and generally larger. 
 
 
 
>>Furthermore, Makos are the fastest shark in the ocean and Orcas DO NOT prey on Makos. 
 
Do you even know how to read? Because the link clearly shows how KWs prey on Makos and explain how they subdue them using their superior intelligence (something you obviously lack). 
 

Orca has size, strength, and intelligence going for him.

Marc stop skipping school and maybe you'll learn how to read. lol.

Fact is GWs leave the area when KWs arrive. What does that say to you Marc and Otto?

*Just to let everyone know... 
 
Toby Ross and Toby are entirely 2 different people.######!

@Marc 
 
Just so you know... 
 
Fastest recorded Mako shark is 31mph. 
 
Killer whales can go up to 30mph. 
 
So it is not out of the realm of possibility that a KW can not catch a Mako. Get your facts straight.

Yea... that makes me want to puke. It sucks, but I stand by my argument. Killer whales are VERY wasteful animals. For a whale (oversized dolphin) to do that and get most more respect than the shark, that sucks too. Although there are a few videos circulating about this type of thing, people tend to think orcas are kings of the sea. I would still have to say the great whites are the kings. They have been around far much longer before the orca's inception and the inception of all cetations in general. There are far more species of elasmobranchs than cetations and the fact of the matter is that SHARKS RULE THE SEA! I hate to see people look at the killer whale as some sort of superhero because of the occasional fatality on a shark. 
 
I'm sure given the right conditions a shark (particularly a white shark) could have it's way in a fight or confrontation with an orca. Just because it has not been documented doesn't mean it can't happen or has never happened. Damn... You people are the ignorant ones. You tend not to put the Great White so much in the limelight. 
 
By the way to the people that are so enamoured with the orca, expecially the people who did that last string of posts: yea you are the same people with multiple screen names. Now tell me that's not childish!? It makes me wonder if you have evolved as much as sharks since their inception. Long before cetations or homosapiens, that's whales, dolphins, and people, you morons! Sharks have evolved in their own sophisticated way. 
 
Posted by the "judge" ha? Judge your own logic- "Not to mention the non-sense childish name called rubbish." well that statement in and of itself is "non-sense" and "rubbish." See? you contradicted yourself! 
 
-Marc 
 

"...no contest. KWs are smarter, warm-blooded (much greater stamina than cold-blooded creatures)..." 
 
 
 
The Great White is actually technically warm blooded. It has a heat extange system in it's muscles (as do all the lamnid sharks.) The GW is definately NOT as stupid as you make it out to be! 
 
 
 
WOW... I must have forgotten more about sharks in the past 5 minutes than MOST of you dumbasses will probably ever know!!!

The cockroach has been around a long time too, but I wouldn't call him the King of Beasts.

Every animal from the ant to the elephant evolved from a long distant life-form. That means that, even if an animal is a new species, he still has as long a history as a shark or anything else. He simply made more changes along the way.

Marc, to be honest I have not used Dailiy Mail to extend my scientific knowledge until now. But to be more compatible with you, I am going to read that link.

@Marc, 
 
The fact of the matter is you do NOT have the evidence to back it up. Again keep speculating and assuming because that seems to be what your good at. 
 
 
 
The fact that you bring up the KW being wasteful, which has nothing to do with the topic in discussion (KW vs GW just to remind you), clearly shows that you are just a GW fanboy.

@Marc, 
 
 
 
So what are these so called right conditions? Please elaborate. Or do you mean a pre-adolecsent Orca or a wounded Orca vs a mature Hreat White? Is that what you mean by "right conditions"? 
 
Of course, it's not always going to be the KW coming out on top given let's say a 100 encounters. But in general, most of the 100 encounters, the in KW will be the victor because of it's advantages as mentioned above. 
 
 
 
>>Just because it has not been documented doesn't mean it can't happen or has never happened. 
 
Sorry but this aint religion Marc, you need concrete evidence to backup your claims. 
 
 
 
And just because Sharks have been around much longer that Orcas has nothing to do with superiority. The Crocodiles have been around millions of years and yet when confronted by Hippos, they always seem to back down.  
 

@Marc 
 
 
 
>>The GW is definately NOT as stupid as you make it out to be!  
 
 
 
Of course they're not. That's why they scatter and dive down to incredible depths when KW's arrive in the same area. 
 
And who said they were to begin with? Please enlighten me where I said that. Unless of course you misinterpreted my statement "KWs have superior intelligence" to mean GW ar stupid. Again, do you have a reaeding comprehension issue or do you like to assume and make up stuff. Kinda like your arguments for the GW.

@Marc, 
 
Dumbasses = Marc 
 
Because you can't seem to comprehend, can't seem to stay in topic and resort to name-calling when you can't back up your arguments with facts. 
 

@Marc, 
 
>>WOW... I must have forgotten more about sharks in the past 5 minutes than MOST of you dumbasses will probably ever know!!!  
 
 
 
This coming from a guy who thinks that KW's don't prey on Makos. For a guy who claims to know alot about sharks, how is it that you can't find any concrete evidence to backup your "assumptions". 
 
Get over yourself.

Again, do you have a "reaeding" comprehension issue... 
 
 
 
Learn to spell because you obviously have a spelling "comprehension issue." 
 
 
 
You are just a orca "fanboy" and there seems to be more of YOU so I am outnumbered. Just a great white outnumbered by orcas would loose. 
 
 
 
At lest go watch some fu<king shark shows on discovery channel and maybe you'll learn a thing or two. 
 
There's so much garbage on the internet, that most of you are mislead. 
 
And for the mako arguement... Those facts (which are fictional) were most likely posted by a KW "fanboy!" 
 
Makos are like the cheetas of the sea. 
 
 
 
-Marc

@Marc, 
 
 
 
>>Again, do you have a "reaeding" comprehension issue...Learn to spell because you obviously have a spelling "comprehension issue."  
 
 
 
I expected you to come up with arguments against my statements but all you seem to find are minor spelling errors. Face it, you have no more valid rebuttals so you resort to acting like a third grader. How pathetic. Stick with the topic Marc. Is that the best you have? I thought you are the Shark expert.  
 
 
 
>>You are just a orca "fanboy" and there seems to be more of YOU so I am outnumbered. Just a great white outnumbered by orcas would loose.  
 
You seem to b e the definition of a fanboy because you refuse to face the facts. All I've given you are concrete evidences. And yet you can't come up with any valid points to refute them. Not to mention that you seem to get really angry about it based on your name calling and cursing. Are you 12 or something? Grow up Marc. 
 
 
 
>> Makos are like the cheetas of the sea.  
 
Again a statement that has nothing to do with the argument. Do you know that cheetahs are so week theycan't even stand their ground against hyenas?

>>And for the mako arguement... Those facts (which are fictional) were most likely posted by a KW "fanboy!" 
 
Ha, ha. Because that's all people do is create fake pictures and come up with bogus stories. You call whoever created the article fanboys. Well at least they back it up with pics. You on the other hand, have NOTHING. No facts no proofs. You are the epitome of fanboyism. 
 
 
 

otto you crazy FOOL, let it go buddy that GW had it coming son, you know, I know, we all know it x

Lol at Marc. Do you have attention deficit disorder or something? You seem to digress often ("KWs are wasteful", "Makos are cheetahs of the sea", "spelling errors"). Topic of discussion is "GW vs KW in a fight". Stick to it. So far you haven't posted anything to support your claims and refute the pro KWs arguments. 
 
I find it funny how you discredit articles and videos by simply labelling the authors/creators fanboys. Quite immature. 
 
And while it's a good suggestion that people educate themselves more about sharks (discovery channel), it still does not refute the fact that Mako's and GW's are preyed on by KWs as evident by the links. 
 
And while your statement "SHARKS RULE THE SEA" maybe somewhat true, it is still a fact that the so-called "Baddest of the living sharks" (the Great Whites) scour when the KWs enter the same area. 
 
 
 
Here are more excerpts from articles for you Marc... 
 
"In the 1970s, Pete Klimley, a marine biologist at the University of California–Davis, played killer whale vocalizations to silky sharks off Florida. The sharks bolted "as if shot from a cannon," says Klimley." 
 
"Whether the Farallon sharks recognized the killer whales by sight or by sound, the presence of the whales did appear to trigger their hasty exodus. Humans fear the great white shark as the ultimate predator; the sharks may perceive their rank differently." 
 
"When white sharks (Carcharodon carcharias) first appeared 11 million years ago, they shared the seas with Carcharodon megalodon, the 50-foot-long, submarine version of T. rex that ate baleen whales for lunch. The fossil record suggests ancestral white sharks avoided areas populated by their supersized relatives. 
 
By 2.5 million years ago, large, orcalike dolphins appeared, and C. megalodon died out. Some paleontologists think this was no coincidence: The ancestors of today's killer whales may have outcompeted C. megalodon for the top spot on the oceanic food chain. Perhaps the white shark survived because it was less specialized than C. megalodon. Or maybe it survived because it dodged large, dangerous dolphins as assiduously as it had always avoided C. megalodon." 
 
Now I'm sure these marine biologists are just fanboys. lol.

Interesting info TheTruth. Always thought the GW was a direct descendant of Megalodon. 
 
 
 

Toby and Toby Ross are NOT the same person.

I think that Orcas are very intelligent and can sometimes be very calculating that if I were to go in one of those underwater cages and was given the option of being surrounded by: 
 
1. 2-3 very hungry Great Whites, OR 
 
2. 2-3 very hungry Orcas 
 
I'd rather go in the underwater cage surrounded by 2-3 hungry GWs. Because if the Orcas really want to eat you, they will come up with some way to get you out of that cage. 
 
 
 
Just check out these footage: 
 
Hunting Seals 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3xmqbNsRSk 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNnx_X5ue2c 
 
 
 
Attacking a Sperm Whale 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8tUvVsXFYM&feature=fvw 
 
 
 
Attacking a Grey Whale 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y42xFoNJFTU&feature=related

This argument seems one-sided. There's just overwhelming evidence in favor of the Orca.

Damn, that poor seal's fate was sealed (no pun intended) as soon as it got spotted by the Orcas. 
 

GREAT WHITE SHARKS FLEE LIKE SCARED LITTLE GIRLS AT THE SMELL OF THEIR OWN DEAD. THEY ARE COWARDS. THEY DONT STAND A CHANCE AGAINST AN ORCA. PER NAT GEO

an orca could own a great white any day!

Judge, above you had previously used crocs as an example stating they "back down" from hippos-in fact, hippos aviod populations of nile crocs and one croc, Gustav who is credited with over 300 human victims, has hippo on the menu-they flee at the mere sight of this behemoth who rules the river and he has no equal. He is reported to be over 21 ft and well over a ton, so your myth is busted!

Attila, you must be crazy if you think a Croc is gonna scare away a bull Hippo. 
 
Hippo's rule the rivers of Africa and anybody who says different really shouldn't be allowed out without adult supervision.

ATTILA, 
 
You are talking about one particular croc (Gustav). You can't make generalizations just based on just one instance. 
 
The fact is hippo attacks kill more humans in Africa than any other animals. This is why hippos are regarded as the most ferocious animal in Africa. 
 
Anyway, if you wanna continue this argument, there is already a thread about it. Go there and we can go at it.  
 
Here's the thread... 
 
<a>http://www.wildanimalfightclub.com/animal-fight-videos/bid/23549/Hippo-Attacks-Crocodile 
 
 
 
BTW, notice how the croc wants nothing to do with the hippo in that video? 
 

All the fights on this site are preety straight forward, not much thinking involved: 
 
Orca vs great white = orca 
 
tiger vs gorrila = tiger 
 
grizzly vs gorrila = grizzly 
 
wolf vs cougar = cougar 
 
bull vs bear = bear 
 
dragon vs gator = gator 
 
wolverine vs baboon = wolverine 
 
lion vs black bear = lion 
 
cougar vs black bear = black bear, though the cougar may stand some chance. 
 
now these are the only fights that are close: Lion vs Tiger and Kodiak vs Polar bear

well who ever decided the winners on this websit is a dumb fuck cuz some of the winners are def not true freakin tiger vs groilla the freakin gorllia is to strong for it plain and simple but shark vs orca def the orca too fsat to powerful

Judge + TheTruth = win. 
Lol.

Both animals could easily kill the other it comes down to who got the first bite. If a gw was hungry enough and a kw just happened to surface for air the shark could easily kill the orca from below the gw does have a disadvantage in a head to head fight tho.

Love the posts! Great W entertainment! 
 
Having observed GW's during days on my fishing business, GW's seem more complex than one would imagine. Each has their own personality from what i've obsereved. I'm no expert in sharks, but this is one big fish.  
 
Who knows in the deeper parts of the oceans, but encounters I would Imagine are rare on all accounts, considering their natural water temperature habitats.  
 
We sometimes encounter orca's during a season, motivated by dolphins on the run (great sardine run). Now orca's are animals that know what they are doing, hunt in packs, and will bliksomme a boat if needs be. Some individual orca's will skipper alongside us and help us fish, so respect! 
 
This isn't a question of one that would win over the other, but rather what the ocean is willing to sacrifice & provide. Despite what you may think, the GW that was killed (youtube) was a juvenille. GW's respectively will also kill orca juniors given an opportunity. Tit for tat.  
 
If a fully grown female GW (they are much bigger than male's) where likely to encounter a lone male orca bull (biggest orca, who is likely too seek a new family), then, by all means, I guess they would avoid each other.  
 
Too much at risk. Teeth vs power in this instance, both would rather live another day! 
 
Forget coming up for air in this instance, orca's have much larger brains than the GW's. They certainly seem more agile than GW's. Faster and more powerful too.  
 
However both have developed the killer instinct. If a GW doesn't like the look of another GW, the bigger GW will kill the junior GW in it's own presence, without reason (unpredictable). I've seen it. 
 
Orca's you might think are a bit more structured in this instance. Not quite so. They may be family or outcast, but they are as just unpredictable, albeit with a higher level of intelligence. 
 
GW's however are canny for sensing weakness, that is why they are top of the apex predators in the ocean chain. Stalk and kill. 
 
Sharks do sleep despite what some people have said on this site. Ocean currents keep their gills oxidised.  
 
There is no doubt in my mind that orca's are significantly larger by size and bulk even by a 20ft or 25ft (often blown out of proportion GW), which ive never seen. (GW's Usually average 13-18ft in my part of the world) 
 
orca's have 6-8cm blubber skin compared to 3-4cm GW skin, so bite isn't an issue for an orca as a killer blow. Orca will bleed yes. Crushing power on an orca's point of view to a GW is devastaing. Speed, brain power and bulk of an orca blow is more pulverising. Maybe just swat a GW aside.  
 
There is one thing that we don't know here. And that is we don't know how large GW's grow too. Reports as.., huge.. maturity, takes years for these sharks too develop, rarely these animals live to reach too adulthood. We have no Idea how long they live? They could grow too 25ft as reported in chronicles, but due to over fishing, we may see a prawn or a monster yet! 
 
Avoid vs thus argument, because I certainly have respect for them both. Nature has its ways of dealing with life on earth.

Pretty good post Danie! In fact one of the best comments I've seen so far, in my opinion. 
 
 
 
These predators plays a critical role balancing the food chain, and no one would have wanted to see one to extinct of course, however, if I have had ever given a chance to pick GW vs KW such as one would have had the opportunity being eternal, I would have picked Orca no doubt about that... :)))

This fight kind of goes both ways. On occations GW have killed and eaten orcas and the other way around. But nither of these animals have the other on the menu all the time. It comes down to how the animal acts. Lets say theres a large, really territorial and aggressive GW. Its gonna kill orcas. Again it can go the other way around but what im saying is that since both animals are carnivores they wont come into contact with each other that often and so try to avoid each other as best as they can and when and if they do smell or see each other they will most likely backdown and turn the other way. Again, it all comes down to how the animal acts. I say its a tie, GW have been recorded over 30ft long and same goes with orcas, i would say that the GW gets more aggressive, but still its hard to say 100%.

I totally agree with "lion man" he's right!!! 
 
 
 
Just for the record... 
 
 
 
"...if they do smell or see each other they will most likely backdown and turn the other way." 
 
 
 
Orcas have absolutely no sense of smell and very little (if any) sense of taste. However, they do have eco-location.  
 
 
 
However, sharks can sense energy given off by all living things via the laterial line and ampullae of lorenzini. 
 
 
 
Anyways, I give the orca credit although I'd say 50/50. 
 
 
 
-Marc the Shark 
 
}-^-,>

The Orca is clearly the winner here. But, the sperm whale is the top predator in the ocean. About 300 years ago, before the whaling industry ( whale holocaust ) bull sperm whales averaged about 80 feet long. We know this from jaws collected by whalers. One jaw came from a 90 foot bull.  
 
Today, 60 footers are rare. The much over rated Megalodon averaged about 40 feet long. Experts now agree that the biggest Megs were from 50 to 60 feet long, and these giants were extremely rare. There was likely never a Meg over 60 feet long, presumimg they had a body plan similar to the great white.  
 
A 40 foot Meg would never attack an 80 foot sperm whale. Also, I have never heard of Orcas attacking sperm whales.

Attila if you are around, I have an old newspaper article in scanned jpeg format about the greatest ever GWs and I found it quite interesting. The second largest 'GW' was trapped in a herring weir at White Island, New Brunswick, Canada in 1930, and its length was estimatated as 37 ft. The largest known specimen ever seen is belived to have been 43 ft and was found in False Bay, near Cape Good Hope, South Africa in 1835. If we accept that the maximum length of modern time GWs is around 22-25 ft, a 37-43 ft GW-like shark is a different category. Can it be that Megalodons just died out some 180 years ago?

Toby, according to my knowledge sperm whales are strict food specialists, even if they are really powerful meet eaters. In my view, a top predator eats most of eatable things below its position within the food chain or food pyramid.

This is very true Otto. The sperm whale is not viewed as bei9ng the killer that the Orca or the great white is. Never-the-less, he is a predator. And, he is immune to shark attacks. Moby Dick was based on a true story of a sperm whale sinking a ship. The bull sperm whale goes unchallenged.

Sperm whales have devastating power, in addition, they do not seem to be as friendly with men like orcas. There is no predator who could kill a healthy specimen

"Now let's see your facts Otto. Let the GW fanboism go."  
 
Judge, finally I red your source of the very true facts about the superiority of orcas over GWs. The only problem was that the shark on the pictures (see the reference below) was a 2 m mako that was killed by 8 m orca. Nobody said that orcas are not hunting for smaller sharks regularly as smaller dolphins (even pilot whales) are on the menu of bigger sharks. 
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1231454/Killer-whales-Death-karate-chop-deadly-tactic-used-orcas-sharks.html

Remember, Orca's are a dolphins meaning that they have Sonar location just like dolphins. There's no chance for a Great White to "suprise" an Orca.. or even a dolphin for that matter. The Orca will know its coming before the Great White knows it is there, unless the Orca is bleeding. An Orca is SO much smarter than a Great White, and much bigger and faster too. Not only that, but Orcas eat whales that are larger than them for breakfast. To an Orca, a Great White is like a tasty buttery lobster.. you don't have it all the time, but you like it.  
Even a normal dolphin could kill a Great White in self defense by ramming into its gills with its nose at high speed. 
Great Whites don't attack Orcas, Orcas attack Great Whites. 
When it comes down to it.. the smarter and faster you are the better.

I forgot to mention: 
-Even if an Orca was bleeding, it would still know the shark was coming 
-If the Orca located a Great White and thought it was a threat, it would not stick around.. it would just swim away.. and since a shark senses prey by sight and smell.. the Orca (not bleeding) would probably be able to get away easily. 
-Orcas stalk their prey.. from afar. An Orca who wanted to kill a Great White would know it was there from a mile away and have the element of surprise and the best strategy.. the shark wouldn't know what hit him. 
-Orcas don't feel threatened by Great Whites.. if they did there would be no chance in hell that they would ever come in contact because like I said, a rare lone Orca can avoid one quite easily.

On the argument of intelligence 
Great Whites are killing machines.. literally.. they just kill. Their only objective is see/smell.attack.kill.eat.digest.repeat. Animals like this are usually the ones that are not as intelligent. An Orca on the other hand usually lives with their family in pods, raises their young, hunts strategically and selectively. This shows it's superior intelligence in the world of hunting prey. 
For instance, a Great white will attack a fake seal that is being dragged behind a boat.. an Orca will not. A Great White will attack a human that is swimming, an Orca in most cases will not. 
 

Kay. It amazes me that there are those who cannot understand just how overmatched the shark is against someone who is bigger, faster, stronger, and about 100 times smarter. Everything you say is true.

Toby, it seems that the thing which is amazes you is that somebody could have different opinion from yours. Just a few example on the tedious interpretations from the last comments: 
 
"Orca's are a dolphins meaning that they have Sonar location just like dolphins. There's no chance for a Great White to "suprise" an Orca.." 
 
Do anybody know which sensing systems are more sensitive: the sonar location of KWs or the sharks' sensing of electromagnetic resonances compiled with extraordinary smelling? 
 
"On the argument of intelligence":  
 
You state that sharks are just killing automats. Intelligent chess players are often lose against chess automats. In my view, a reliable automat often perform better than a gappy intelligence. Sharks are here 400 million years ago while lots of much more intelligent sea animals died out. Do you think that KWs are perfect, because they are intelligent? Why they eat whales only for their tongue? Is it an intelligent and sustainable behaviour? GWs are not wasteful they are just automats living in harmony with the nature. More generally speaking, destroying natural balance is the sign of intelligence? Why intelligent KWs kill smaller and younger KWs behaving cannibalistically? (it is proved fact) 
 
"-If the Orca located a Great White and thought it was a threat, it would not stick around.. it would just swim away.. and since a shark senses prey by sight and smell.. the Orca (not bleeding) would probably be able to get away easily.  
-Orcas stalk their prey.. from afar. An Orca who wanted to kill a Great White would know it was there from a mile away and have the element of surprise and the best strategy.. the shark wouldn't know what hit him." 
 
Wow, what a screenplay! A whole movie of empty speculations. Again the sharks' long-distance senses of electromagnetic resonances are not involved. If the evolution will go like this humans will be soon toppled from the throne of intelligence by KWs as we sometimes commit mistakes...

And yet, after all is said, there has been only one witnessed encounter between great white shark and Orca. The shark attempted an attack on a baby Orca. The mother ( not a stronger bull ) easily killed the shark.

The great white usually attacks from below and kills with a sudden surprize hit from below. The Orca would feel the vibrations before the attack is completed. Plus the fact that there is no evidence that any shark ever attemps an attack killer whales. There is even a theory ( just a theory ) that Megalodon became extinct because Orcas systematically killed off the young Megs. The Orca appeared just as the Megs disappeared.

"And yet, after all is said, there has been only one witnessed encounter between great white shark and Orca. The shark attempted an attack on a baby Orca. The mother ( not a stronger bull ) easily killed the shark." 
 
We agree that there is only one witnessed GW vs KW encounter. But there is again a little problem with your interpretation Toby. Your story is the fourth or fifth version of the same event, which is intersting alone. According to the Dean Grubbs (a graduate student at the Virginia Institute of Marine Science, Gloucester Point, Virginia, who was just in the Farallon Islands and has direct information from the killer whale/white shark encounter) - who got fed up with the media circus - is telling that there were two adult female KWs (a 20 footer and a smaller) attacking a small juvenile GW (9-10 ft), because it swam too close to their prey (so no KW calve was close). KWs were not feeding on the carcas of small shark at all.  
 
Reference: 
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/Sharks/InNews/deangrubbs.htm  
 
Even some people were spaculating that the shark there was not even young GW, because of the small size and bluish color, but a young short fin mako. (Size estimates of KWs and the shark came from Pete Pyle)

"There is even a theory ( just a theory ) that Megalodon became extinct because Orcas systematically killed off the young Megs. The Orca appeared just as the Megs disappeared." 
 
Yeah, as dinosours died out when the first mammals appeared. Is it really enough to find a correllation? 
 
KWs have so minor effect on the total whale population - they can not kill healthy adult specimens, because whales in general have higher long-distance sustainable speed - that most likely there was no direct competition between KWs and Megs.

"An Orca is SO much smarter than a Great White, and much bigger and faster too. Not only that, but Orcas eat whales that are larger than them for breakfast." 
 
It has again nothing to do with the reality. KW fanboys always come up with these bigger size and faster swimming stuff. At the same time, the average size of an average KW is between 5-6 m, not bigger than a mature female GW (although certainly heavier). Always just one sided comparisons in the name of solidity; average GW vs the biggest ever KWs. Nobody knows the top speed of GWs there are estimates between 15- and 40 mph. KWs are able to maintain high speed only for short term anyway, this is the reason why whales have not died out because of them.

The Orca is called "killer whale" because they are known for killing whales many times their own size. The only whales that great white sharks are known to kill are much smaller dolphins. And, those dolphins, which are close relatives of the Orca, are known to kill sharks of equal size.

"And, those dolphins, which are close relatives of the Orca, are known to kill sharks of equal size." 
 
Alone? One-to-one? Please do not manipulate the facts repeatedly...

Yes, Otto. One on one. In fact, dolphins have been known to kill sharks that are bigger than themselves. The dolphin simply rams the shark in the gill area at high speed. Then it is bye bye shark.

Otto, you sound like a man who's having a hard time accepting reality. the average KW is larger, stronger, faster and smarter than your average GW. 
 
The fact is, when KW's come into a territory, GW's leave. 
 
Now why would that happen?

I am not a marine biologist, but I know well enough that orcas suck. By theory I believe orcas may have learned some of their traits from sharks. Sharks have been around longer than whales and dolphins. A Great White COULD kill an orca. ITS POSSIBLE. 
 
 
 
If you like orcas so much than go and force yourself to eat their shit. 
 
 
 
ORCAS ARE VERY WASTEFUL ANIMALS

GO EAT ORCA SHIT YOURE ALL BIAS. YOU'RE SO ONE-SIDED YOU'RE LIKE A HORSES WITH BLINDERS ON. THIS IS AN ORCA ONE SIDED BLOG, MAKOS SWIM ALOT FASTER, IN FACT WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY FASTER THAN ORCAS. AS FOR SOME OF THE ORCA ATTACKING GREAT WHITE PICS, THEY ARE MOST LIKELY DOCTORED. I DON'T BLAME YOU. YOUR PROBABLY TOO STUPID TO BE ABLE TO CREATE FALSE PICS. MAYBE 'YALL GROW SOME BRAINS IF YOU'D STOP PLEASURING YOURSELF TO PICTURES OF ORCAS AND WAKE UP AND SMELL THE SALT AIR AND AT LEAST AGREE THAT A GREAT WHITE DOES HAVE THE ABILITY TO TAKE OUT AN ORCA!!!! BY THE WAY, GWS IS KNOWN TO EAT DOLPHINS!

Let me guess Douglas. You are 9 years old. Right?

I don't think that it is impossible for a Great White to kill an Orca whale. Given the Orcas abilities as a hunter vs. a Great White, I feel that Orcas are MORE equipped and more likely to kill a Great White than the other way around. I'm sure for all you Great White lovers out there some big Great White out in the vast ocean has managed to kill an Orca. 
 
Douglas, why do Orcas "suck". You don't seem to give any reasons as to why you think so.. I can give you a few reasons why they are amazing (in my opinion) they are expert hunters of the sea, intelligent, fast and strong, yet they can also be friendly, playful and caring towards their family. 
I think Great Whites are cool too, I just don't like them as much because I find that they have a one track mind. I prefer my animals not to be all jaws. Whether sharks have been around longer than whales is irrelevant, many species on Earth have been around before humans, yet we are at the very top of the food chain. 
 
Why would I eat an Orca's "shit".. grow up. What are you 12?

LIKE I SAID TO YOU STUPID BIAS PEOPLE; COULD A 9 YEAR OLD MAKE A WEBSITE AS GOOD AS MINE? 
 
Go see 4 your self: 
 
http://bluemako.customer.netspace.net.au/index.html 
 
 
 
Until then, G,day

Wow Doug, or should I say "G,day?" You are a very cruel person indeed. I saw your website. I know html too, but I don't brag about my sites. Wow, real mature. You must have a very low ego to be killing so many sharks like that! How can you dispute a Great White killing an Orca or an Orca killing a Great white when you seem to pose more of a threat to sharks than even an Orca or even another shark for that matter. I resent you and what you do. Your facts about shark reproduction are incorrect, and everything you say and what you do in general is wrong and ecologicaly incorrect!!! Shame on you!!! Find a new passion because sharks are already in enough danger from people. 
 
Sorry to stray from topic, but I had to give this Douglas moron a piece of my mind. 
 
The only thing that I do agree with is that "...THAT A GREAT WHITE DOES HAVE THE ABILITY TO TAKE OUT AN ORCA!!!!" Props on that and that only; but be more mature and less egotistic. By the way, I would prefer to eat Sh!t from a shark or an orca that is still alive than to eat the meat of a dead shark or orca :P That's how much I care about the welfare of these majestic creatures!!! 
 
 
 
Check out this jerks website and give 'em hell!!! 
 
It's http://bluemako.customer.netspace.net.au/index.html

Otto, I can't agree with you even to infinity!!! Your totally right! There is one thing that doug said that I forgot to mention which is supported by me and you (in opinion) about orca's being wasteful but I will agree and leave it alone sort of speak at the same time because Douglas is a moron. 
 
 
 
I like the following statement:\/\/ 
 
 
 
"Do you think that KWs are perfect, because they are intelligent? Why they eat whales only for their tongue? Is it an intelligent and sustainable behaviour? GWs are not wasteful they are just automats living in harmony with the nature. More generally speaking, destroying natural balance is the sign of intelligence? Why intelligent KWs kill smaller and younger KWs behaving cannibalistically? (it is proved fact)" 
 
 
 
And my two cents... so what, is the orca everyone's superhero just because they can kill GW's? You know I'm sure it can go the other way around (it probably has.) 
 

An average of 12 people are killed each year by sharks. An average of 100,000,000 sharks are killed each year by humans. It is just ignorant for any human to call any wild animal wasteful. And, any person who hunts animals or kills sharks for so-called sport is a coward with a big ego problem. He wants people to believe that he is some kind of hero, but he is only a coward.

"Yes, Otto. One on one. In fact, dolphins have been known to kill sharks that are bigger than themselves. The dolphin simply rams the shark in the gill area at high speed. Then it is bye bye shark." 
 
Sorry that I have to say this Toby, but I found so that you are continusly manipulating things, I do not trust your comments anymore without providing evidences. I am sure that your above comment is a fake again. A dolphin alone never can kill a same size shark. 
 
"Otto, you sound like a man who's having a hard time accepting reality. the average KW is larger, stronger, faster and smarter than your average GW.  
 
Jcol, you sound like the man who just read those parts of anyones comments which supports KW fanboyism. Most of the 'facts' cited by Judge, Toby Ross and you are proved to be fake and direct manipulation (see Judges' Daily Mail story, Toby Ross's missinterpretations, etc.) I accept everything if reference or the source of the information is given. But until now none of your references proved what you were stating. 
 
"The fact is, when KW's come into a territory, GW's leave. Now why would that happen?" 
 
GWs are mostly pelagic when they rich maturity. There are only few spots like the Farallon Islands where subadult GWs can be found at higher density. Each of these locations are the same in two respects. They provide excess food and they are also in the range of KWs. I am asking you, if KWs are so superior over GWs why they do not simply take up these food-rich territories? KWs appeared twice during the last decade at Farallon Islands for a short time, and they were hunting there only once. When you answer this I will answer your question. 
 
"The Orca is called "killer whale" because they are known for killing whales many times their own size." 
 
Killer whale and whale killer means different things. KWs got their name because of their intermediate size (between dolphins and whales) and because they are predators. KWs mostly kill whale calves, very young, very old and sick specimens. And sometimes they kill females protecting their calves, because they can not use their full speed. KWs are far not superior even over krill-eating whales. 

But, Orcas do attack females, protecting their calves and kill them. Those females are much bigger than the Orca. 
 
But, the great white shark has never been known to attack anything as big or bigger than itself. I seriously doubt that the prehistoric Megalodon ever attacked a whale as big or bigger than itself either.  
 
It is well within reasonable speculation that an Orca might attack a full grown great white shark. But, a great white will never attack an adult Orca.

"But, the great white shark has never been known to attack anything as big or bigger than itself. I seriously doubt that the prehistoric Megalodon ever attacked a whale as big or bigger than itself either." 
 
Again such a self-assured proof of fictitious speculations. If you visit the cited internet site you will see that even tiger sharks (which are smaller than GWs) attack and kill for example young humpback whales... Adult tiger sharks are about 3-4 m long, the biggest ones are about 5 m and their maximum weight is 1 ton. 
Average Megs were between 14-16 m in length and their estimated weight was 20-30 tons. It is not a question that they could easily kill any recent types of whales. 
 
Reference: 
 
http://conservationreport.com/2008/07/19/shark-week-recommended-images-humpback-whale-shark-attack-humpback-whale-tiger-shark-attack-a-natural-phenomenon-caught-on-camera/ 

I never said that a tiger shark never kills anything bigger than itself. The tiger shark is the apex shark. If I had to make a choice between swimming with great whites or swimming with tigers, I'd go in with the great whites.

You are close to right about the size of the Megalodon. They averaged about 40 feet long, although 50 footers were not so uncommon. Most paleontologists now agree that 60 foot Megalodons were rare, if they ever reached that size.  
 
They real top predator of the ocean is the sperm whale. A big bull can measure up to 60 feet long. If you were to go back in time, just 200 years or so, before the whaling industry slaughtered the biggest bulls, leaving the smaller weaker bulls to breed, bull sperm whales measured 80 feet long. There was at least one individual killed who measured 90 feet long. 
 
No Megalodon would attack a bull sperm whale. If they were anything like the great white, they only attacked small whales. 
 
 
 

It was unknown even for scientists before 13rd November, 2006 - when a group of tiger sharks killed the young humpback whale - that it is possible at all. But the story itself just started to spread and reached wider media coverage in 2008. As GWs are bigger and more powerful than tiger sharks it is a reasonable speculation to suppose that they can kill whales in similar situations. The problem here that the scene of shark vs whale encounters are most likely in deeper waters not like KW vs whale fights, which can be more easily observed from the surface.

There is no daubt in my mind that a great white could kill an Orca ( in a surprize attack ) or a large ballen whale. I just don't believe that it will. Bullsharks and tiger sharks seem to be more agressive. Am I wrong?

Otto, Otto, Otto. Sometimes, "Wild animal fight club" comes up with a "fight", that is so one-sided, that supporters of the loser are reduced to calling supporters of the winner, "fanboy", as if that is some kind of ultimate insult. 
 
Exactly what did I say that was wrong? 
 
 
 
Are you saying that the average KW is NOT bigger than the average GW? 
 
Stonger, faster or more intelligent? 
 
Every web-site I've come across, reputable or otherwise, points to the KW being superior in all these factors. 
 
Where exactly are they wrong? 
 
As to why KW's don't simply take over a "food rich" territories, seems to me that they do! When they enter a given area, they become the apex predator. 
 
As far as I know, KW's are migratory. I can only assume they don't stay in any one area too long, but I don't know, that's just a guess. From what I understand, no one really understands the migratory habits of the KW.  
 
Instead of throwing out the idiotic "fanboy" retort, tell everbody where we're wrong. 
 
I say again, the KW is, on average, larger, stronger, faster and smarter, and that when the KW enters a given area, the GWs skedaddles on out of there.

who won

What is the purpose in continuing this argument? The Killer Whale is larger, faster, and significantly more intelligent. Even so, we do not know what goes on in the depths of the sea. 
 
And yes - we get it, the Great White Shark could kill an Orca. What more is there to say? If any so called "fanboys" comment on this without backing up their arguments with facts, why don't you just let them do that? It's their loss, so you shouldn't have to waste your time and energy fighting about it. 
 
Nobody said it's not ok to love sharks or Killer Whales. At least I have nothing against shark-people, being on the Orca's side. 
 
Sincerely, how must this go on?

Edit: I meant "How long must this go on?"

You are right Kree. This fight, like most here, is very one-sided. Usually, one animal can win with a sneak ambush against a more powerful adversary. But, in a face-off, the Orca is a sure winner here.

"Otto, Otto, Otto. Sometimes, "Wild animal fight club" comes up with a "fight", that is so one-sided, that supporters of the loser are reduced to calling supporters of the winner, "fanboy", as if that is some kind of ultimate insult." 
 
Jcol, the meaning of fanboyism in my view is that if somebody state something without any acceptable evidence or logic explanation based on at least some knowledge. As the only one witnessed GW vs KW encounter proves nothing (I detailed my related arguments above giving references) anybody who is stressing KW superiority by referring that event as a real and hard proof is a fanboy. Whenever anybody can provide real and clear evidence that adult GWs are on the menu of KWs, I will accept that with no further debate. If you go through on the comments of the last few days I always gave references of those sources that contains the most direct informations about a given subjects. I respect the same. If I remember well you called me first GW fanboy. It will probably surprise you, but I am not a fanboy. I am just waiting for a really convincing evidence, instead of fakes and conscious missinterpretations. I also do not feel that this debate is one-sided even if I am outnumbered in my opinion. It is not important how many people agree with you. The only important thing is who is closer to the reality.

Jcol, just two example for your fanboyism: 
 
"Sorry Otto, but KW's do prey on GWs, even adults. But it's rare, because the GWs usually skedaddle when the detect a KW in the neighborhood. Posted @ Wednesday, January 06, 2010 5:17 PM by jcol" 
 
A typical fanboy stuff: there is no proof, just one-sided speculation. Could you please give a reference about successful KW attacks on adult GWs? 
 
"Now, let's take a realistic look at the two combatants;  
The KW has the edge in size, strength, speed, intelligence and weopens. The Orca can and has used his sonar as a tool to confuse prey.  
 
The GW has, well......actually the GW doesn't have much more than a puncher's chance against the KW. The shark, contrary to what some here have posted, is very limited in intelligence, compared to the KW. The GW has been described, and rightfully so, as a stomach with teeth attached to it." 
 
Very solid, really realistic view with minor shortcomings... 
 
(GWs have complex and different personalitites, they apply different hunting techiques for different preys, they have sensitive senses for electromagnetic resonances, for minor chemical changes of the seawater, smelling etc.) 
 
Could you please also give a reference how KWs can confuse potential preys with their ultrasound sonar? (because it would be a new discovery meaning that seals, fishes, sharks can also sense ultrasound)  

I have to apologize Jcol, you never called me fanboy. It was Judge.

Wow ! Anyone who thinks the shark would win is sadly mistaken. It has no been observed and proven that Orca's not only hunt & prey on the "Big Bad" Great White (and other sharks). In fact they actually can "toy around" with the biggest GW sharks before they destroy them an eat their liver first and then the rest leaving scraps for other fish & the birds. Please, its no contest, they (the Orcas) are much to big & strong for even the biggest GW sharks, when the shark sees the orcas, the run like a little girl.

orcas are on average larger and certainly have greater animal intelligence than great whites. some scientists now believe they have another advantage. their sonar may serve to disrupt the sharks nervous system. wonder if anyone has thought that mimicing an orcas cry might make a good shark repellent underwater?

HAHAHAHAHA. Wow. This is interesting but not even a fight. Here are the advantages.  
 
 
 
 
 
KILLER WHALE: Size 
Strength 
Speed 
Intelligence 
 
 
GREAT WHITE: Ummmmmm.... 
well.....uhh 
.......... 
....nothing 
 
It's clear that ANYONE WITH AT LEAST ONE SINGLE MINUSCULE BRAIN CELL IN THERE HEAD KNOWS THAT AN ORCA WOULD EASILY TAKE OUT A GREAT WHITE!!!! 
 
It would be like a Grizzly VS a Pit Bull. 
 
EVEN IF THEY WERE THE SAME EXACT SIZE, THE ORCA WOULD STILL DOMINATE THE SHARK DUE TO BEING ONE OF THE SMARTEST ANIMALS TO EVER EXIST. 
 
 
KILLER WHALE WINS. Period. End of story. Waste of discussion. DONE.

what ye all on about here is something which should even need discussion a lone orca will easily overpower a great white shark! An orca is not as placid and friendly as it looks when it comes to hunting! Even the largest of great white sharks would not stand a chance with this mammal!! anyone who says otherwise is totally deluded and needs to do some proper research!!

Marine Biology Major here. Orcas intellect here is the factor. The vid displayed a female Orcas against a smaller GW. Even if a GW manage bite an Orca it will not succeed in a kill due to the whales hulking size and mobility. Also, imagine a Bull Orca killing a full size GW.

Unbelievable. Where do you people get your information from…video games? I swear, the internet has had an adverse effect on end-users. It was SUPPOSED to make us smarter. Obviously its intent failing.  
 
 
 
No one has mentioned ‘bite radius.’ A GW takes a larger, higher-impact bite than an Orca. When you consider the physics of this, the GW’s bite is much more lethal than that of an Orca. Both animals typically swallow prey whole; at least parts of it. Both animals employ surprise attacks on prey which is not uncommon in the animal kingdom: Bears, Big Cats, Birds of Prey, etc.. The GW however is perfectly designed for its environment. The Orca has adapted to its. Major difference. (ADVANTAGE GW) 
 
 
 
Size advantage goes to the Orca obviously. Intelligence…a misnomer. Orcas are adaptive learners because they are gregarious. They travel in pods. Apex predators typically don’t travel in numbers because they are equipped to survive autonomously. By design GW’s don’t travel in pods…NOTHING in the ocean would survive. Including humans. Advantage: Null 
 
 
 
Someone mentioned a frontal attack. That’s absurd. I can’t think of any apex predator that attacks prey head-on except maybe bears and wolves. The GW would dive below the KW and hit it from below with the force of a dump truck. The Killer Whale no matter WHAT size would die from exsanguination; bleed to death. That would be pretty gutsy of an attack however being that Killer Whales travel in pods of up to 100 animals. Advantage: Great White 
 
 
 
1. Orcas rely on a myriad of hunting strategies. They hunt cooperatively and by surprise attack. If an Orca wanted to attack a sub-adult GW, it would probably ram in near the gill like its Delphinade cousins. Gills are one major advantage elasmobranches have over mammals so why not attack that area? Weighing up to 2-6 more tonnes than a GW, a major collision would rupture that sharks major organs and cause internal bleeding. Advantage: Killer Whale 
 
 
 
A Physeter (Sperm Whale) could take out both animals with ease but a distant relative of the modern day Great White (Carcharocles Megalodon) gorged itself on them routinely.  
 
 
 
I haven’t read about Killer Whales being found with GW bites taken out of it but if there were I’d assume that the whale(s) died before being scavenged. Neither animal is on each other’s menu. Just so happens that one is extremely territorial, traveling alone and the other travels in pods. So I’d expect a 2 vs 1 or 10 vs 1 fight to favor the Orca.  
 
 
 
.  
 

I agree that in an ambush attack, a big great white shark could kill a lone bull orca. And probably has. A dead whale floats ( floating food for sharks ) 
 
But in a face-off...? 
 
If you dig deep enough into sperm whale facts... before the whalers killed off most of them in the hayday of whaling, sperm whale bulls were regularly 80 feet long. Many of these whalers collected the jaws. One sperm whale jaw came from a 90 foot sperm whale.  
 
Today, a 60 footer is extremely rare. I doubt that even megalodon attacked the bulls. 
 
It is a theory that the orca brought the megalodons to extinction by killing off their young. *Just a theory.

It's a retarded theory...come on, really?...Megalodons were driven to extinction by Killer Whales?...I think not...Killer Whales RARELY attack Great Whites, and you're trying to tell me they killed all the Megalodons?...and really people, you want to make a convincing argument, try using some decent grammar and diction...otherwise you just sound ingnorant...I love Great Whites...but it's not even a close fight, unfortunately...Killer Whales have the advantage...I don't like it, because Great Whites are just flat out cooler...but facts are facts, and Great Whites haven't been shown to be Killer Whale killers, while Killer Whales have been know on RARE occasions to snack on Great Whites...'nuff said...now flame away, fanboys...

Where did all of you idiots learn to spell? How can you have an intelligent conversation about anything when you morons can't even differentiate between "than" and "then", "intelligence" and "intelligents", can't spell rudimentary words like "normally" and "hungry" correctly? And then there are several of you talkinga bout how these are God's creatures... blah blah blah... this is stuff that happens in the wild, flower children. It's part of life's cycle, lucky for you, survival of the fittest doesn't quite apply to the human race anymore otherwise you would have been taken out of your 3rd grade classrooms and killed when it was finally determined that you were hopeless MORONS!

Obviously the movie Free Willy shows that Orcas are pansy chick flick pussies. The movie Jaws shows that great whites are ones you don't fuck with. Great white wins. End of story.

My husband and I were discussing Orca vs. Great White Sharks. This video ending the arguement for sure. I won the bet. Thank you Utube.

this is a really teacblog it really ooooolys wanted t ched me alot i alwao study illerwhales and great wihte sharks thanks the guy/girl who made this YOU Rock!

I DONT KNOW ABOUT THIS! lol i'm pretty sure if a Full grown great white against a full grown orca BY THEMSELVES the shark would win. way to strong for the whale and much faster.just cause they caught one video of a SMALLER shark losing doesnt mean they always do! lets just say nothing fears a killer whale but everything fears a great white! thats gotta tell you something.either the killer whales send out alot of themselves to kill the shark or be eatin by one later!moral of the story is: take alot of whales to kill one shark before the shark kills the whales one by one!

Look for everyone defending the great white..... unfortunatly your all wrong, the orca can easily kill a great white (even if the biggest badeest great white fought the biggest badest orca)because orcas are smarter. when an orca attacks a great white it bashes it and nocks the great white on its back where it relaxes and cannot moves - basically unconcious (called tonic imobilisation) and as the great white has to move in order to continue blood pumping around its body - the killer whale keeps the great white in its mouth upside down until the great white basically suffocates. This is what happened in the video above, and this is normally how killer whales kill great whites and other sharks. Not only that, but after this video all of the great whites in the area (around 100 individuals) fled the area, some dove down 600 meters and fled all the way to hawaii. I do like great whites but when it comes to a clash between the great white and the orca unfortunatle the orca will win because of its superior intelligence......

I remember at school a group of 6 bullies used to pick on the kid about the same size as them. The day it all stopped was when 1 of them tried to pick the fight on their own and he struck back!! The bully was floored and never bothered him or anyone else unless his group was around. 
 
Same with the orca, the incident with the whale that ate jaws, involved a 11ft white and a 16ft killer whale, oh and its 12 ft buddy..... the shark swimming in non aggressive manner struck be surprise by the whale. The whale didn't throw the shark round like a rag doll, they started eating it once suffocated. 
 
If the great white had been in a hunting pattern coming from below the whale would have suffered extensive damage probably life threatening, but then the shark would have to compete with its back up. 
 
On their own they are as lethal as each other and who ever launch the attack will come out on top, in a pack the whales are more dangerous and effective.... but then they should be!!!

a shark would not usally come up at the killer whale from the bottom becuz he may not see it now remeber this the killer whale has a sonar like system. he can see everry thing around him. now back to why the shark could not see him. look at the killer whales body. sun shining down on the watter your not gona see the white belly. and and attack from above the killer whales black back will make it disaperar into the deep. its the alltamite predator. camofluge/sonar/intelligents/size and in your story the bullys were pick on a kid the same size lissin a killer whale is biger then a great white and stronger. and iff the shark gets ramed by that and thats how they hunt them by raming them then that flips them upside down and the whale holds it by the neck area.

That's a good point Swallows. But just to correct you, they didn't consume the shark, only it’s liver.  
 
 
 
There's three elements working here that don’t support routine predation on Whites:  
 
 
 
1. The adult/sub-adult KW’s weren't hunting the shark; they were consuming a freshly killed pinneped. The inexperienced juvenile shark sealed its own fate by going to investigate the kill of two orcas; ballsy. If Whites truly feared orcas it never would have attempted to sit at the dinner table with an apex predator. GW’s have far better sensory mechanism than a land animal turned cetacean. You don’t see lions offering hyenas a rib bone in Africa.  
 
 
 
2. Only the nutrient-rich liver was consumed and not in it’s entirety. This says that orcas are smart enough to know a good morsel whether from a shark, whale, tuna, etc. Why pass that up? 
 
 
 
3. If GWs were a natural prey item we'd see this happening more frequently at places where Whites patrol. Both species share a common delicacy and they’d clash horns more often.  
 
 
 
There’s so much I could dispel here. From the Megs to toxic immobility to pods vs autonomy. With the internet now at our fingertips, the speculation(s) will come to the surface. So far it’s KW 1 GW 0.  
 
 
 

I do not know if any one as already said this but there was a case of a female KW than had caught a shark and turned the GW upside down for I think it was 2 hours before killing it. It was on Nat. Geo. and something about the shark going into a state of deep sleep or something like that but idk 
Anyway I would put my money on the KW.

all you orca lovers here are completely nuts...this video doesnt even show anything clearly...it's a small shark versus a fully grown orca... a great white is up to 25 feet, and teh mouth is 6 feet, with razor teeth... orcas are bigger, but the head and teeth are much smaller,,,, a large GW will inflict such heavy wounds to it's mammal opponent, it would not be fair...picture a ferocious lion against a water buffalo.... yes orca has a chance of killing, but with a PREDATOR of almost equal size, more muscle mass, and 4 times the size of mouth, it just wouldnt be fair. i dont know what i see in that video...but that's not a real large white, but a small shark...they should supply proper and clear video footage....

Alex, I don't know what's so hard tounderstand about this. 
 
A full grown male Orca is BIGGER, STRONGER, FASTER, and more INTELLIGENT than a full grown male Great White Shark. 
 
Even if they were the same size, the KW still has the advantage because of it's intelligence. 
 
The Killer Whales rule the oceans. 
 

your all annoying.....! the only one of you who has made any sense is "The Smart One" a few comments above! The rest of you are guessing!  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
FIRST OF ALL - Not all killer whales see sharks as prey. only certain pods do. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
SECONDLY - sharks have one majour weakness (Tonic Immobility) where the a shark is basically unconcious when turned on its back (and for those of you who dont know - a shark needs to move in order to breath) so all that a killer whale does is knocks the shark on its side and then holds it there until it suffocates.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
there job done. 
 
 
 
 
 
PLEASE! PLEASE! WATCH "THE WHALE THAT KILLED JAWS" a documentary on this topic - even on this video and then you will see wt i mean!!!  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Thank you!!!!!!!!

Ease up Dean. Don't have a Cow over this. 
 
"the Smart one" isn't telling us anything most of us don't already know or can't find out through the various websites. 
 
I would take issue the conclusion that the intelligence factor is "null", in a match-up between a KW and GW. 
 
I've read that KW's have changed strategies and techniques in the middle of a hunt, so it's not a stretch to think they may also do so in a "fight" with a GW, if needed. 
 
I also question the assertion that GW's are territorial. Everything I've read seems to point towards them being migratory in nature. 
 
Those are two issues that I question, but then, that's what this exercise does. It makes you questions the strength and weaknesses of both animals. 
 

Tonic Immobility @ Nealw. It’s yet to be determined the exact reason for this trancelike state. My guestimation points to mating but I haven’t heard anyone verify that.  
 
 
 
You’re dead on Alex G. If a GW 15ft or larger struck a KW from beneath its vital organs would be ripped out and it’d bleed out in a matter of minutes. The chances of that happening however are slim because KW’s travel in pods; Safety in numbers. A solitary KW will die disconnected from its pod. They aren’t designed nor programmed to live/hunt alone.  
 
 
 
Alex, KWs only rule the oceans because of their numbers. That’s the exact reason why a KW would have an oil-barrel sized hole ripped out of it in a one-on-one fight with a GW. It wouldn’t even be fair. The proverbial “Strength in numbers” but hey, this is how God designed it.  
 
 
 
You’re correct Dean. A shark turned over is as threatening as an alligator with two hands around its mouth. I will add this though, people often think that sharks must keep moving to supply oxygen to the gills but many sharks have learned to use currents to its advantage. I doubt you’ll ever see a GW doing that however. It’d be too risky for the 1000lb + sharks (White, Tiger, Basking) to try that.  
 
 
 
I've been studying GWs for over 25 years and KWs about 20. I did a paper in college refuting the fact that sharks see humans on surf boards as seals. I’ve had to listen to that whimsical nonsense for over 20 years and finally on Shark Week 2010, shark scientists are changing their stance. Trust me on the face off, a White of comparable size will win.  
 

okay look here the great white would only win on a fluk. all videos and facts prove that the killer whale is biger stronger and better. lets look at the advantegis. 
 
sharl- teeth 
 
killer whale- inteligents, speed, strength, and size 
 
 
 
weel ponts. 
 
sharks- gills and nose. 
 
killer whale- no week pounts it is desined to ram sperm whales. the killer whale in a pod of 6 can bring down a pod of 7 sperm whales. 
 
 
 
the killer whale allso has a sonar like sistum called eco location. a lone killer is gona pick up a shark befor the shark picks up the killer. and killer whales from what iv studyed dont work as a team to kill a shark they actully only eat the liver iff there shark eating killer whales or unless the femail is with its yung then enney shark nearby is dolphin food. you see iff they charge echother the great whit will try and bite the whale. the whale will simply rame the shark right in the nose and iff killer whales can stun sperm whales by raming them that shark is out coold. then it will be fliped on its back and held by the neck. you know only 5 people out of a hunder belive the shark can take a killer and the only reson for that is becuz growing up the great white is an icon but kids dont relize that the real king predator of the sea is the killer whale as one it can take down enneything its size and smaller. as a team they can bring down large pods of sperm whales and a blue whale

Mr. Smart one, I do take issue with a couple of statements in your last post. 
 
#1. You state that the KW is not designed or built to live/hunt alone. 
 
That is just not true. 
 
Yes, the KW prefers and spends most, if not all of their time in various pods, but some KW's do indeed spend some time alone. Usually young males, as I understand it, will sometimes go off on their own for various lengths of time. They are more than capable of successfully hunting by themselves. 
 
The second statement, "trust me on the face-off, a white of comaparable size will win", is one not based on fact, but is, in fact, just your opinion. 
 
Given the advantages the KW has over the GW in just about every category, My opinion, and that of most others as well, is that not only is the KW the top Apex Predator in the ocean, the GW has little to no chance at all, in a face-to-face battle with the Killer Whale. 
 
I can appreciate that you may have some experience in this field, but it seems that most everyone else with that same experience are picking the KW. 
 
I think they're right.

At Jayson, 
 
 
 
I have never once seen, read or heard about a solitary Killer Whale. Though transient pods typically have low membership, a KW forced to fend for itself would die; By starvation or a rival KW pod. That’s not opinion, that’s the reality of it. Even around the world at water parks they’re put in the tank together. Don’t forget, a Killer Whale is herculean dolphin and sharks eat dolphins. I think people forget what exactly a Killer Whale is. The reason I say the shark would win is because KWs aren’t voracious. They’re certainly aggressive but not voracious. A tiger is aggressive but a grizzly is voracious.  
 
 
 
Yes KWs are intelligent, yes they are stronger. At the same time, they’re a recent introduction to the animal kingdom. GWs have been around for a longgggggggggggggg time, surviving everything thrown at it. That video of the Orca attack is so misleading it’s funny. I won’t even shoot holes in it but as I mentioned before…we’ll see this again if it’s a so-called "common occurrence." Peter Pyle is living on the Farallon Islands where the 1997 attack occurred. There hasn’t been another attack since then so that bulls* NatGeo documentary was a farce and they know it. In anycase I love both animals and would love to see them battle it out again.  
 
 
 

I didn't say these KW's were "solitary". I said it had been noted, from time to time, that young males do separate from pods, usually, as you note, transient pods. They do eventually rejoin a pod, sometimes the same pod, sometimes a different pod. 
 
But in the interim, they certainly had successful hunts. 
 
 
 
I'm not sure what being "voracious" has to do with a head to head battle. The KW can adapt to whatever the GW would want to try. Indeed, about the only way a GW could win, would be to through a stealth attack from below. If the KW knows the GW is there, it's most likely the end of the line for the GW. But the battle itself probably wouldn't take place anyway. It seems to me that I read that a GW seems to respect size more than anything else. As the KW is, on average, likely to be larger than the GW, I can't see the Shark taking a run at the a larger predator. 
 
I also don't see how long a species has been around has any advantage as far as which of the two is superior. I salute the GW for having been around for so long, but all that experience hasn't made it any smarter, apparently.  
 
I don't take much stock in the Farallon Islands film, clearly the GW was a sub-adult, but what WAS strange, was the dissapearence of ALL GW's after the attack. None could be found anywhere near the Islands. In fact, if I read it right, sometime later, it happened again. The KW's showed up, and the GW's all headed to parts unknown. 
 
I'm not drawing a conclusion, just making an observation. 
 
Perhaps you can shed some light on this.

resently a mother killer whale and her baby were out swiming in the bay of this iland i do not know the name youll haf to look the videao up. it was white shark matting seson when the sharks are agresive. people from a bout videotaped a larg great white charge the yung femail and her cub. 
 
the femail went to inter sept. both animails colided and there was a big splash you can see it all on the video. the killer whale had ramed the shark head on crunching its intier body. then the killer whale with its intelagents roled it on its back and held it. 
 
 
 
okay sharks eat dolphins but not killer whales. there the king dolphin enneyone in there right mind would know a killer could hunt on his own. the same way the shark dose. eating seals off the surface or eating sharks. in a pode the take down whale but they offten go off alone and hunt sharks and seals. they usahaly hunt together bretching and grabiong seals off the beach. oh and the killer whale killes the shark 9/10 times and dont forget the puny little dolphins that are smaller then the great white have killed great whites by raming them in the gills. now put a killer whale built to ram like a rino. 
 
it the grizzly versus the rino. the grizzlys gona get plowed.

they allso stated in that vedio that all the other white sharks sudanly disapered after the killer whale killed the shark. 
 
no shark nomader how stupied there are they know a killer whale is black and whit death iff they can see it. the perfeckt predator. they had a show on that. the killer whale was the ocean perfekt predatore the apex predator you know what the means no ennamys and eats all. iff the come from the bottum there black backs camoflug into the dark water come from the top there white belly camofaguis them into the sun light. hug teeth buily for crushing. they can stun sperm whales by raminfg them with no damage to the killer

Jayson, 
 
 
 
The GWs disappeared after the KW attack because of the smell of their own dead (like all sharks - if they smell their own dead they swim away! fast and far!)  
 
 
 
 
 
The sharks did not return to the island the year after either - despite the abundance of food around the farallon island (mainly seal).  
 
 
 
When the GWs fled the area one shark was tagged. It was found that that specific GW (a large male) dove down to around 600M and fled all the way to Hawaii. 
 
 
 
Thanks

Oh, and it did happen again - KWs showed up and the GWs disappeared again! However, with no actual reports or sighting of another attack.  
 
It was witnessed that KWs where feeding off of what looked like a GW liver. 
 
 
 
Thanks

@ Dean. You’re watching a little too much Nat Geo my friend. They tested the smell of death on like lemon sharks or something.  
 
 
 
On another note, in addition to my college study disproving sharks seeing humans as seals, I’ve tried to organize a crew to fabricate a few orcas, take them to the Farallon's and play vocals from a transient pod. I want to see how the GWs will react to that. I want to do that with a pod and with a lone orca. The most formidable bully would avoid confrontation with even a group of 20 computer geeks. I saw a group of grey wolves kill an adult sow grizzly to which my jaw is still on the floor.  
 
 
 
@ Jayson, voracious is the inherent, violent disposition of an animal. Ever see KWs toss seals around like cats do mice? GWs don’t do that crap. It’s a born killer. Tiger sharks are notorious for devouring each other in utero. KWs are social, playful animals with teeth and brute strength. The name ‘Killer’ is a misnomer. Without going all super-scientific on you, the moniker comes from the latin Orcinus Orca which translated is “Bringer of death to whales.” Other nomenclature is “Wolves of the Sea.” Again, strength in numbers. How can something be an “Apex Predator” that hunts cooperatively? Think about it.  
 
 
 
I don’t put to much stock in the fact that the sharks disappeared. GWs are territorially pelagic. They have been known to migrate thousands of miles. I can state for a fact that Jerry Garcia (the tagged shark seen travelling to Hawaii) didn’t travel that far because it was running from a pod of KWs, that's absurd. Though I can’t state the exact reason that the sharks disbanded, both predators are at the top of the food chain and aren’t going to say to each other, “Can you please pass the salt.” If GWs travelled in schools they’d move a few solitary orcas out as well. Same with lions. Same with wolves. Same with hyenas. Why compete when you don’t have to? There’s plenty of food for everyone. Especially when the numbers highly favor your rival.  
 

Mr. Smart one, I do have to step out for the day, but let me put your mind to ease; 
 
Do not concern yourself about going all "super-scientific" on me, I'm sure I can figure it out, even if I have to look up the word(s). 
 
As both the KW and GW are predators, it seems to me that both are "Born" killers. Left on their own, both will kill to survive. The KW, due to it's intelligence, have just figured out how to kill in more efficient manner and sophisticated ways, and that makes the KW the more dangerous of the two. 
 
 
 
What causes a GW to deviate from it's normal behavior and swim 600 miles to Hawaii? There is cause and effect working here. The smell of the death of it's own kind, or perhaps the threat of death, to itself? 
 
As I understand it(And yes,I could indeed be wrong), in the first occurence, there were only the two KW in the area, not a pod. 
 
Solitary or with a pride, a full grown male Lion is still an Apex Predator. So it is with a Killer Whale. Do you think the KW forgets how to kill if it doesn't have a pod around? Are you saying they are incapable of making a kill, on their own, one-on-one? 
 
I find this surprising from someone who claims to have studied KW for 20 years. 
 
Permit me to make an observation; 
 
You certainly seem to have a fair amount of knowledge, and you present it in an intelligent, if somewhat less than humble, way. 
 
But conventional wisdom seems to be against you.

Jayson, 
 
 
 
Just f.y.i., I wasn’t implying that you couldn’t keep up if I ventured into the science of it all…I actually assume the opposite. Normally I won’t even discuss this topic with people on the I-net because they pull stuff out of their arses with no substantiation.  
 
 
 
You seem like a smart guy. In reference to ‘conventional wisdom,’ it reminds me that this is an over-sized dolphin. And a KW is NOT a born killer to correct you. It’s a learned killer. Gregarious animals all teach the young how to hunt from KW’s to Lions to Wolves. When the young get ole enough they run with the pack/pod/pride. ‘Conventional wisdom’ tells me that the GW is an unparalleled, primitive predator. Born to kill from the womb without instruction…without nurturing. Even the mighty bears nurture their young. There are only two apex predators that I can think of that will consume its own young after birth; GWs and Crocs. But even crocs will guard and protect their clutches until birth.  
 
 
 
You should understand this---The GW is the most formidable predator in the world. Individually, there’s nothing on its level. Look at its design. Flawlessly designed for its environment. From Ampullae of Lorenzini to a nictating eye membrane, it’s designed to be successful from a pup. There is a reason that THEY don’t travel in groups. NOTHING would survive. That my friend is conventional wisdom.  
 
 
 
Allow me to quickly shoot down this ‘smell of death’ nonsense. If there were any merit to that, GWs would disband following an attack on another GW right?? I’ve seen GWs lash out and attack another GW but there’s no trip to Hawaii. No 3000ft dive. This is speculative lunacy. If they are thwarted by the smell of their own dead, why don’t they swim off in a panic like people foolishly state? I mean do people really think about things before they dogmatically state them? Holy crap.  
 
 
 
I could conduct that same experiment with lemon sharks using ammonia and guess what they’d do. Do I even need to say?  
 
 
 
Thx 
 

The Smart One, 
 
 
 
If its not the smell of their own dead, then please explain why all the sharks in the area (over 100 individuals) fled the area? 
 
 
 
Thanks

Just because they didn’t see any sharks doesn’t mean they were still there. Less than 20 of those sharks were tagged and GWs are very migratory. How in the heck could a shark know what death smells like unless it's been around dead sharks before? And if so, why would it continuously return to the place where death filled the water?? Go to the Farallons right now--there are plenty of GWs there. As aforementioned, my assumption (without evidence) that they sensed the orcas in the area and knowing orcas come in packages of 10-200 individuals; flight or fight. Easier to just let the transients stroll through, eat a few pennies and bid them godspeed. The whites are there every year and have been there every year since the attack. And guess what, they leave during the same time of year every year. They were doing it before the attack and after the attack.  
 
 
 
Why did the shark even go over there in the first place? No one seems wise enough to question that. Two orcas? Humm…… 
 

i know its hard for you after living your life looking up to the great white to relise there is a biger and better ocean animal. 
 
 
 
and it was a mother and a yung cub not 2 fully grown killers and they were the only ones around the pod was out in the deeper waters near the bay. they do not allways stay together. killers haf to team up to bring down things biger then them so a great white beter team up bucuz one killer whale is more agile and strong. those are two fighting keys when you have them both your deadly and i mean your deadly. iff you actully spent all those years in the felied you would know the shark would be crushed by the killer raming it

Smart one, you do the KW a grave disservice. 
 
To say that is just a "over-sized Dolphin", is akin to saying the Tiger is just a really big house Cat. 
 
I don't understand your reasoning. 
 
You claim the GW is "The most formidable predator in the world." 
 
And there are several factors, some of which you listed, which would indeed put it very high on the list. 
 
BUT.....let us take a single Killer Whale. Forget about the POD, just look at the one individual KW. 
 
In the same enviroment as the Great White, we have a predator that is BIGGER, STRONGER, FASTER, arguably more AGILE, and most importantly, MORE INTELLIGENT. 
 
Given all of these indisputable facts, how can you still think the GW would come out on top? 
 
There is NOTHING in the sea that a GW can KILL, that a KW can't. 
 
Ok, give the Shark a point for being more voracious. 
 
But that's NOT ENOUGH to overcome the advantages of the Killer Whale. 
 
NOTHING in the sea preys on a full grown Killer Whale. 
 

Completely agree with Jayson.....

Brady, 
 
More agile? Really? Bone vs Cartilage? 4000lbs vs 2500? Born in water vs Adapted-to-water? I’d challenge you to rethink ‘more agile.’ I’ll agree with you on ‘ramming’ however. Very few animals could withstand a head-butt of a KW.  
 
 
 
Jayson, 
 
My intention is not to discredit the KW. I love KWs and they’re triumphant hunters. At the same time, I’m calling a spade a spade. It IS a large dolphin. That means it behaves like a dolphin. Dolphins are playful, family-oriented cetaceans. Sharks are all business...the bull shark being the most ferocious but not packing the punch of a tiger or white. Get in the tank with a tiger shark and try to teach it to balance a ball on its nose and I’ll see you in the next dimension. Intelligence is a great asset but so is a two-foot bite radius.  
 
 
 
This whole argument can be punctuated by one variable; who shoots first. Both animals are capable of unleashing a lethal initial blow; KWs by blunt force trauma and GW by exsanguination. We can go back and forth all day long on this but in my opinion whoever strikes first is most likely to come out on top.  
 
 
 
Take a 15ft tiger shark and a 20 ft killer whale, drop them both in a sea-water tank and my money is on the tiger shark. The tiger shark would rush it right away while the GW would be more investigative.  
 

Your hypothetical situation between the smaller Tiger Shark and the Larger Killer Whale, is confusing also. 
 
And you're the person who can clear this up for me; 
 
I've read many times that Sharks usually adhere to a "Dominance Hiearchy". Apparently, the only thing a Shark respects, is a bigger shark, although I would think a bigger "predator" would give it pause as well. 
 
Would the Tiger mistake the larger KW as "prey"? Surely, it wouldn't recognize the KW as such. 
 
I was unaware that Sharks attack anything larger than itself. 
 
In any event, my opinion is that the Shark would hesitate in attacking the KW because of the difference in size, whereas the KW would recognize the Shark right away as a potential danger and react accordingly. 
 
Yes, Dolphins are indeed playfull at times. And it's fun to see the big KW's do all the entertaining 
 
things they do, in captivity. 
 
But when the KW is on the hunt, it's ALL BUSINESS too, and while the KW may not LOOK as ferocious as the GW, it is, in my opinion, way more deadly because, and again, you can clear this up for me, the GW may give up after the initial attack, or couple of attacks, if not successful. The KW however, hardly ever gives up. Once it targets it's prey, it keeps at it. 
 
At least that's what I've read.

 
 
You’re correct Jayson. There is a “Dominance Hierarchy” (pecking order) amongst sharks and many other animals in the wild. The biggest member(s) of a group usually gets first dibs on the spoils; Lions, bears, wolves, komodos, primates, etc. Other than big cats, eagles and snakes, no animals come to mind that will go after prey larger than itself, including the KW. Dolphins, skates, seals and salmon aren’t formidable prey and successful predators are opportunistic. Note: KWs will attack a sperm whale from the safety of a pod but not 1 on 1. There are records of sperm whales crushing and killing orcas that got a little too daring.  
 
 
 
The tiger shark would interpret the KW in the same manner the KW interpreted the GW…as a threat. The GW, though being a juvenile, was not threatened by the two orcas but the orcas (at least one of them) saw the shark as a threat. The difference would be that the tiger shark would consume more than just the KWs liver. If the KW killed the tiger, it probably wouldn’t consume it . If you watch National Geographic, lions will kill hyenas and wild dogs but won’t eat them. They don’t like the idea of competition. KWs don’t either. Evidence of this is supported by the attack on the GW. Had the liver not popped to the surface the shark would have just sank and the KW would have returned to the seal. This was part of my thesis as well. ‘Why didn’t the whale consume the shark?’ 
 
 
 
The GW wouldn’t need to give up on the KW because a KW is nowhere as elusive as a seal. When you watch a GW attack a seal or porpoise, a huge amount of energy is expelled to execute the “kill blow.” This is where “Air Jaws” comes from…GWs hurling themselves in a showery blast out of the water. It’d be pretty hard to miss a 20ft animal. And when the shark hits it, it’ll remove a mini-fridge sized chunk out of it of which the whale will bleed to death. That’s why I maintain that 1-on-1, it really wouldn’t be a fair fight. I love KWs too much to just watch it have a hole bitten out of it.  
 

Smart one, you are assuming that the KW is just going to sit there and let the GW take a shot at it? 
 
I contend that that the KW will identify the GW as a threat long before the GW sees the KW as food, and will take action. Which brings me to the Tiger attacking the KW. Given that Sharks do have a dominance hiearchy trait, why would it attack the KW? Wouldn't it be more likely to swim away? Why would it go after the much larger KW?  
 
In fact, given the "threat" level the Tiger represents, wouldn't the KW attack first? After all, by your own admission, the KW hates competition. 
 
These questions bother me, because it goes against typical behavior. 
 
As to why the KW didn't consume more of the Shark, I've read that Shark flesh has a lot of ammonia in it, I'm guessing you already know this, if it's true. Could it be a matter of taste? 
 
That seems strange given that some human cultures consider Shark meat a delicacy. Maybe it's just a certain kind of Shark, I don't know. 
 
But let's get back to the battle. 
 
Even if the GW gets in a shot, the KW is protected by a significant amount of blubber. The GW would have to get in a kill-shot, on the very first try, which is highly unlikely against the faster KW.

And yes, you're right in that a KW will not attack An adult Sperm Whale. I've read that even with the help of the Pod, they tend to stay away from the big Whales like Sperm and Blue. The danger is just too great.

True indeed. Its very dangerous for even a pod of killer whales to wrestle with sperm whales. One whack from the head of a 40 ft bull and it's over.  
 
Of course the KW would see the tiger as a threat but my scenario was a hypothetical arrangement of the two in a tank and knowing the tiger's nature it would immediately rush the KW. Large sharks have no fear...totally primitive. It would be interesting to see how a lone KW would react without reinforcements.  
 
The only shark that I know that's toxic to humans are greenlands. The KW didn't eat the GW because that is not a normal prey item. It capitalized on the curiosity of a juvenile GW. If the shark were dolphin or mako it would have consumed it.

Smart one; 
 
Ah, but we DO have some indication as to how the KW would react without reinforcements. The KW attack on the sub-adult GW off the Farallon Islands. The larger KW left the Smaller one and immediately took off to meet the GW. Now, I grant you, it's a small sample size, but it's still indicative of KW bahavior towards Sharks. 
 
Well, it's plain to see, that we'll just have to agree to disagree. You have certainly shown that you know Sharks, but I just think you're short-changing the ability of a lone Killer Whale. 
 
But, it is what it is. 
 
And it's been a good, informative discussion.

Yes indeed Jayson. We can agree to disagree. I’ve had this argument over a zillion times and it often ends in a stalemate. I will say that it’s refreshing to have the argument with someone that presents intelligible questions and answers; thank you for that. In the meantime, when these two DO clash again, I’m sure it’ll be caught on video and add fodder to the online rivalry.  
 
 
 
The Smart One 
 

The fact of the matter is there is concrete evidence that the KW killed the GW. Until then, all you have is speculation. Come back when you can show a GW doing the same thing. KW 1, GW 0.

More precisely two adult female KWs killed a baby GW..

Even more precisely, by all accounts, it was one adult female KW that killed a Sub-adult (male?) 
 
GW, NOT a "baby".

By now, there was only one witnessed KW vs GW encounter in which two adult female KWs and one baby GW met. The shark was 9-10 ft (2.5-3 m), which is below the subadult size (4-5 m in the case of female GWs). During the attack the bigger KW (18-20 ft)covered the smaller one's (15-16 ft)action. All the other stories, pics and videos are proved to be fakes.

Excuses, excuses. Keep crying otto. Fact is your badass GW scatters when KWs show up.

Unlike the Great White which attacks from the bottom (sneak attack), the Orca actually confronted the Great White when it approached the pod and then proceeded to kill it.

@Otto, the shark was 9.8–13 ft. But hey, whatever makes you happy. Still doesn't change the fact that it became Orca lunch.

Otto, what point are you trying to make, exactly?

Atilla, those reported "30+" foot sharks were actually much shorter....the chance that a great white approaches 30 feet is next to nothing... 
 
 
 
This is quite a mismatch...I'll have two big 18 foot great whites vs a 30 foot orca and I'll still vote for the orca 
 
weights of the sharks are grossly exaggerated...largest reliable confirmed weight for white shark is 7,100 lbs 
 
Record Orca was an enormous 32 foot, 20,000 lb male.